Join Sarah Noll Wilson as she speaks with Rebecca Christian and Kate Thompson about their experience, as mother and daughter, living with Rebecca’s Alzheimer’s diagnosis. Together, they explore the power of connection, humor, and self-advocacy in overcoming the challenges of memory loss.
ABOUT
Rebecca Christian is a freelance writer who splits her time between Iowa and Toronto. Her work includes plays, books, poems, magazine articles, newspaper op-eds and articles, and a regular newspaper column for the Telegraph Herald in Dubuque for the last 35 years. She considers her best work to be silly stories and songs she has written for her friends, three children, seven grandchildren, three stepchildren and four stepgrands. She has Early Alzheimer’s and is burning the candle brightly before the flame flickers out.
Kate Thompson is a neurodiversity consultant who has worked with a variety of businesses, including libraries and public health organizations, to improve the environment for all employees. She was a member Iowa’s Olmstead Consumer Services Taskforce, which helps enforce the American’s with Disabilities Act (ADA), an adjunct faculty member at Des Moines Area Community College, and a contributor to the American Library Association’s book “Library Programming for Autistic Children and Teens.”
- Kate Email: katecthompson@icloud.com
- Kate LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/kate-thompson-50310
- Alzheimer’s Association: www.alz.org
- National Institute on Aging (NIA) – Alzheimer’s Disease: www.nia.nih.gov/health/alzheimers
TRANSCRIPT
Sarah Noll Wilson
Hello and welcome to this week’s episode of Conversations On Conversations, where each week we explore a topic to help us have more powerful conversations with ourselves and others. I’m your host, Sarah Noll Wilson, and joining me today for an incredibly important and special conversation, are my dear friends, Rebecca Christian and Kate Thompson, and I’m so excited to have this conversation, and for you to meet these two amazing women who are two women who have been in my life since I was 15. We’re going to be exploring the very critical and important topic of navigating life with Alzheimer’s. So let me tell you a little bit about my friends before we hop into this conversation. So first, let’s talk about Rebecca Christian. She is a freelance writer who splits her time between Iowa and Toronto. Her work includes plays, books, poems, magazine articles, newspaper op eds and articles, and she is a regular contributor to The Telegraph Herald, where she has an ongoing newspaper column for the last 35 years. She considers her best work to be silly stories and songs she has written for her friends, her three children, her seven grandchildren, three stepchildren and four step grandchildren. She has early Alzheimer’s and is burning the candle brightly before the flame flickers out. Kate Thompson, who’s Rebecca’s daughter and my dear friend, is a neurodiversity consultant who has worked with a variety of businesses, including libraries and public health organizations, to improve the environment for all employees. She was a member of Iowa’s Olmstead Consumer Services Task Force, which helps enforce the Americans with Disability Act, or the ADA. She’s an adjunct faculty member at the Des Moines Area Community College, and she is a contributor to the American Library Association’s book, Library Programming for Autistic Children and Teens. Rebecca and Kate, welcome to the show my friends and family.
Kate Thompson
Glad to be here, Sarah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
So let’s start with you first, Rebecca. This is a question we ask every guest. After I read the bio, I always ask, what else should we know about you? So let’s start with you, Rebecca, and then Kate will have you answer,
Rebecca Christian
well, I probably one of the things that that I laugh about myself is that I ran a mara-, not a marathon, but a half marathon, and I I was last in the field of 400 some runners, but I still felt a huge sense of accomplishment. (laughter)
Sarah Noll Wilson
I love that. This is why I love asking that question, because you never know what’s going to come up for people. We had somebody once who’s like, I love sharks. That’s what you should know about me. (laughter) I’ve never run, period, so like finishing a half marathon is an accomplishment. I love that. Kate, what else should we know about you?
Kate Thompson
I was telling my son this morning about the first time I went to an Easter egg hunt and all the other kids ran around filling their baskets as quickly as they could. I found one piece of chocolate and just sat there and slowly ate it the whole time. And then I was puzzled why everybody had come home with these buckets of chocolate. Don’t they know that when you find something, you just sit there and enjoy it? (laughter) So kind of my philosophy on life, live in the moment.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Oh, that is such – I’ve never heard that story, and it’s such a perfect story of like, Yeah, I’m just gonna, we’re just gonna do this. Well, it’s – I want. I want everyone who’s listening to know a little bit about our history and how we know each other. I first came into Kate’s glorious orbit (laughs) when I was in eighth grade, and she was friends with my older brother Andy. She was an amazing singer and theater person and performer. And it was somebody who I always looked up to. I was telling Nick, I was like, Kate was always like, the cool older sister that I wanted to be like and, and, and as a result of that, I was able to meet Rebecca, and and one of the things that was really special is when I was a sophomore and Kate was a senior, we were able to perform one of Rebecca’s plays, Graceland. Where I had a god awful southern accent, and we were waiting in line for the Elvis. (laughter) So I don’t know if there’s anything else that the two of you want to add about our history together, but we’re fortunate to still be in each other’s lives.
Rebecca Christian
I would say that you are one of my favorite friends of Kate’s, because you are always, um, so genuine. I never knew you to prevaricate or exaggerate or – you were open to your feelings and particularly sensitive to the feelings of others.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Thanks. Now I’m gonna cry a little bit. Also, Rebecca, I just want to hear you talk because, like, your use of words and language is so glorious, and now I have to Google the first word you said, because I’ve never, I’ve never heard that before. (laughs)
Kate Thompson
See, there she’s being honest again.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, I know. The only way to be.
Kate Thompson
That’s true. Sarah, you’re one of those friends that when I moved to Des Moines about eight years ago, we just pick up where you left off. You know, it’s like no time has passed every time we’re together. And I really appreciate that about our friendship.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, likewise, and I’m so grateful that you are both willing to come on the show and talk about this. You know, one of the reasons we started this show was to talk about different things that people may experience in their life, or likely will know somebody who’s experienced in their life, and just talk about what that experience is. And, you know, how do we how do we talk about things that are hard? How do we think about how we can support people who are going through hard stuff? So, so Rebecca, you know, let’s start just with your journey on becoming aware that you have Alzheimer’s. And one of the things that I’m curious about is, you know, what were, what were you experiencing cognitively that made you realize. And just so, and I just want to say this in transparency with everyone else, we actually just attended this amazing gala for the Iowa Alzheimer’s Association. So Rebecca, even though you and I have talked about some of this stuff, we’ll just talk about it as if it’s the first time, so everyone can hear.
Rebecca Christian
Okay. Well, I started feeling a little foggy quite a few years ago, and I attributed it to having a really hectic life and a lot of people in my life and a lot of deadlines. I was a freelance writer, so I kind of poo pooed it. And I do remember that a few years before my diagnosis, one of my sons called me and told me that he and his wife were concerned that I was losing my memory, and I wasn’t affronted, but I wasn’t convinced either. I just I had a million excuses for myself. And there is natural aging, which –
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.
Rebecca Christian
A lot of people my age will say, Oh, well, you know, I don’t remember things either, but it’s just the degree to which you don’t remember that you gradually become aware of.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. What was it like? What was it like for you getting that diagnosis, and then, Kate, I’m curious to hear what your experience was like as a daughter, after Rebecca shares.
Rebecca Christian
I wasn’t terribly surprised, but the reality of it did kind of hit me in the gut. You have hopes that it’s something else, you know, sort of like a woman who hopes she’s not pregnant, but then she finds out, oh, some of those symptoms were real and she is pregnant.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah. That’s, that’s, uh, it’s an interesting, interesting way of like describing it, but something that I think a lot of us might might resonate with. Kate, what was that like for you? Because, you know, there’s, there’s obviously Rebecca, you navigating this, but part of it is it’s also your loved ones navigating it as well.
Kate Thompson
One thing that was helpful to me was that both of my sons are autistic, and I had gone through that journey of wondering if that was the case, you know, waiting on these specialist appointments that take a long time. Meanwhile, you’re doing kind of your own research, and then, you know, by the time I actually got to the doctor with my sons and got that diagnosis, it was more of a relief in that – so I kind of had the knowledge for myself that knowing what was going on was going to make me feel better. So even though I was sad that that was you know, that what we suspected was true, I knew that knowledge can be really helpful, and that being part of a community of others, and just having a name for what you’re experiencing is really powerful.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah. Rebecca, one of the things you shared with me when we were together this past Friday night is that you had done some initial testing, and you’re like, I passed it with flying colors.
Rebecca Christian
(laughs) Yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And, but you, you persisted. And I think there’s something really powerful in that. One, advocating for yourself, right? And, and also, you know, when you, when you don’t want the diagnosis you’re going to get, I could imagine how easy it could have been to say, Okay, well, I don’t have it, so I’m good. What was it about it? Like, I’m curious to understand more about what was that drive for you to say, This doesn’t feel right. I want to advocate for myself to really understand what’s going on.
Rebecca Christian
Well, part of it was that my grandmother had Alzheimer’s, and I saw her go through that, you know, from beginning to end, and she was not ever much in a state of denial about it. She suspected herself that something was wrong, and then wasn’t shocked by the diagnosis. And she’d been quite a nervous person, and she really got, you know, one of the benefits of Alzheimer’s for her was she got softer and a little more thoughtful, I think. And she developed a sense of humor about it. One time, she and my grandfather were going through the Christmas gifts that they’d received, and she said, Oh, you know, I’d forgotten that. She said, sometimes I think I’m forgetting things. And my grandfather said, Honey, you’re majoring in it. (laughter) And she just laughed and laughed. And that was something that I remember, that they were in love with each other all their lives, and that his steadfastness and kindness and sense of humor really helped that situation. Although parts of it were terribly sad too.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s the balance of both. And one of the things that – I mean this has always been true about you, Rebecca, is that whenever you have faced hardship and you have faced a lot in your life, you turn to your writing, and you turn to your sense of humor, and in, you know, and this is something that, again, I want everyone who’s listening to this to know and love you as much as I get to know and love you. And your wit and your willingness to have some dark humor about things, but one of the things that has impressed me, not impressed me, but inspired me, is your willingness to be so public about this, this diagnosis, what this experience has been like for you. What is it about writing for you, and and how it helps support your healing or your journey through navigating tough, tough situations?
Rebecca Christian
I just had the urge to write from the time that I was a little kid, and I was around literature a lot. My dad was a teacher of English, and you better not call him an English teacher, because that would imply he was from Britain. And no, he was not. He was the teacher of English. And then, and I helped him a lot with his proofreading, like when I got to be a preteen and he also had a little side business of educational aids for English teachers that I helped with that business and and then my mother was crazy about poetry, and she had taken elocution lessons, and she could recite many poems by heart. And so I was just around words a lot, and it’s what I always liked.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I love that. That makes so much sense. I didn’t know that about your background, but it absolutely makes so much sense. One of the things that you, you wrote and published in The Telegraph Herald that I would love to have you read for us is the, I think, think the title is The 10 Commandments of what not to say to somebody with Alzheimer’s. And I thought this might be a good introduction for people to hear just some of your writing around it. And then, and then, Kate, I’ll come back to you.
Rebecca Christian
It’s called Ten Commandments For Dealing With Loved Ones Who Have Alzheimer’s. One, thou shalt bring photographs and memories from earlier times. We love to reminisce. Two, thou shalt not start a sentence with, Do you remember? Chances are we don’t, but we’ll fake it. (laughter) Three, thou shalt bring us up to date about what your current ups and downs are. We are sick of ourselves and would rather hear about you. Four, thou shalt not regail us with tales about your once prissy grandmother, who, when she had Alzheimer’s, acquired a potty mouth, started saying acting saucy with elderly gentlemen, and began stealing wobbles from other residents of the retirement home. (laughter) Five, thou shalt speak to us in a normal tone of voice, not the one that you would use with your pet or child. We are sometimes more attuned to tone than words. Six, thou shalt not tell us that you have a little bit of Alzheimer’s yourself, nor are you a little bit pregnant. (laughter)
Sarah Noll Wilson
Oh, boy.
Rebecca Christian
You kind of are or you aren’t.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Oh, yeah. (laughs)
Rebecca Christian
Seven, thou shalt suggest taking us out and about, especially if we are no longer able to drive. Eight, thou shalt not feel sad if we don’t have much to say, your presence means the world to us. Nine, thou shalt bring baked goods and candy if ever we had a sweet tooth, it’s a sweet thing now. (laughter) Ten, thou shalt not worry over much about what to do, say or bring. Your presence means you have not forgotten us, and that means everything.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I love that so much.
Rebecca Christian
Thank you.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Thank you for sharing that. And you know, one of the things that I think is so powerful about this conversation is being able to talk with both of you, and so Kate, I’m curious, what, how, knowing how you know Rebecca has shown up with this, how has that influenced how you show up for her?
Kate Thompson
We mentioned that the dark humor, and that’s always been a feature long before this diagnosis, that’s part of how our family relates is being able to joke about difficult things, and so that’s been really nice for her to show me that it’s okay to laugh and it’s okay to, you know, bring up those difficult things and and have some humor around it. For example, we were talking about plans the other day, and we both got flustered the next day. I said, Did I handle that okay? I hope that that was all right. And you said, You handled it great! And I said, Do you remember this conversation? You said, No. And I said, Well, maybe I handled it terribly and you hated it. You know, who knows? Then mom said, Well, that’s one of the blessings of this diseases is yeah, maybe it was terrible, but I don’t, I don’t remember, so don’t worry about it, but, but then it’s easier to have those conversations like, how would you like me to handle this situation?
Sarah Noll Wilson
How, you know, and this could be a question for for both of you, but one of the things that I observe in your family is how close you all are, right? It’s clear how much John adores you, who is Rebecca’s husband, and, you know, getting to witness the brothers and Kate all together and supporting. What? What are some of the things And let’s start with you, Rebecca, what are some of the things that have been most impactful in how your family and friends have supported you? And part of the reason I’m asking is because sometimes when we’re faced with something that feels uncomfortable or scary, we don’t know what to do, and then sometimes people just don’t do anything. And so I’m curious to kind of shine a light on what has been really helpful for you. And then Kate, I want to ask you the same question, but through the lens of being a caretaker or a support, navigating it because you need, you need additional support as well. So we’ll start with you, Rebecca, just what has been most meaningful for you and impactful in the support that you’ve received?
Rebecca Christian
I think all my kids are empathetic, but they’re not pitying, which is really nice, and they’ve been in touch with me a lot, and they have found ways that work for us to spend time together. And I’ve just reluctantly thought I had better quit driving back and forth from Ames, Iowa, where I live, to Des Moines, Iowa, and I thought that would be kind of a blow, and it is a little bit for your independence. But they’ve been great about finding ways to get together and not feeling put upon about it. Nobody has made it about them, which is, and it is a huge impact on their lives. And so, you know they’re going to grieve and worry about what the next steps are. So feeling that there’s good communication, very few pity parties is really important to me.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, well, and you say that in the piece you wrote as well, like, don’t talk to us like you would talk to your pets, and that’s something that I’ve observed, right? Where – and I observe even just when people encounter somebody who’s maybe of an advanced age or older age, like there’s still a person, but there’s this, yeah, this, this is this minimizing of their personhood. What about from your perspective, Kate, you know what support has been most impactful for you?
Kate Thompson
I’m so lucky to have close family, particularly grateful that John is so open and transparent that we can have those conversations. I think a lot of times that’s really hard for the kids. It’s, you know, your parents are authority figures. You don’t want to ask too many questions or act as though they don’t know what they’re doing, and yet none of us really know what we’re doing. None of us have faced this in this way before, so we’re all just kind of navigating it together, and getting frequent updates from John, and being able to have conversations about what’s the next step, or even, you know, things like driving, things like medication. That when he was out of town recently, you guys had a great system for remembering meds on certain days and that kind of thing. That, you know, that’s a challenge. I never want to act like you’re any less capable than you are that day. You know, you don’t want to try to plan for something that hasn’t happened yet, so.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah. What do you, what do you feel like, you know, with both of you are, you know, living this right now? What do you feel like people get wrong about the experience of either having Alzheimer’s, loving somebody with Alzheimer’s, or even just the misunderstanding around the actual, the medical challenges with it, or whatever it might be. What do you feel like people maybe misunderstand?
Kate Thompson
I think I wasn’t aware of how variable memory can be throughout the day, even, or at different times, and that has been really kind of fascinating to see. So it’s not something is forgotten once, and then it’s gone forever. It could be context specific, it could be related to what we’re talking about at the time, and then something is very clear, because it’s been, we’ve talked about it in a certain way. And I think there’s, you know, certain times of the day that are more difficult. So I don’t think that I fully realized that.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. What would you add, Rebecca?
Rebecca Christian
Oh, I think it’s been kind of a relief to stop faking it, because I had, you know, a few years of feeling that I was going slightly downhill all the time. And so now if I don’t remember something, I’m a little bit more open about saying so or seeking a remedy. In fact, I think Kate has mentioned that earlier, I would kind of get a glazed look and say, Oh, that sounds familiar, but it really wasn’t familiar. So she’s been good for me about not treating it as something that’s a shameful thing. But you do, you do sort of feel a sense of shame about it sometimes.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. Well, I would imagine because it’s something that you had control over, that you don’t, you know, you don’t have control over, and you know, and and I can also imagine that the amount of energy having to mask, having to fake it, and having to pretend, right, that that, you know, that can’t help the stress levels. That can’t help the, you know, being able to show up with presence, whatever that looks like when you’re constantly aware of trying to put on a different face then what’s the reality behind it. What would you, so what, if there’s somebody listening to this – I mean, there are people listening to this. I’m sorry. I set that question up. Hopefully. Now, for people who are listening to this, who might find themselves in the very early stages of themselves, or a loved one being diagnosed, what would you invite them to think about or talk about, like, what? What would you? What would you? What would your advice be for them in the early stages?
Rebecca Christian
I think they you could start by not making it a taboo subject, and you could ask your friends and relatives if they’ve noticed that you’re slipping, and what they’ve noticed, and if they think it’s serious or not, and that might help launch you on a path of discovery as to if you have it, and what you should do if you you do have it, You can think ahead. That would be one thing.
Sarah Noll Wilson
What would you add Kate?
Kate Thompson
I think focusing on how things could be improved with the diagnosis. I think that was tough for you, and I spoke to mom, when I first was kind of really pushing you on going to the doctor. It was like, well, this isn’t a. it’s not like cancer, where we want early treatment, because we can rush in there and we’re going to, you know, take care of this problem. And so I think sometimes people don’t pursue it because it’s a little scary to just find out, and they’re not sure what they’re going to get out of the diagnosis. So some of the things that we talked about, the information, and of course, now there’s new medications that are being approved that in the next few years, you know, are really promising. So encouraging people to think about the benefits of diagnosis, just for their own self awareness and their ability to tell other people what they need. You know, it made me think, mom, when you were struggling with hearing and I was encouraging you to get hearing aids, and you really didn’t want to look like an old lady. (laughter) You really did not want people to see and I remember being sort of uncharacter, uncharacteristically blunt at one point and saying, you know, having people see a hearing aid isn’t what makes you seem old, but being in a crowd full of people and not being able to follow the conversation, that’s going to age you so much more than somebody spotting that you have this thing that helps you. So.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah, that’s such a good point, and I need to use that perhaps with my parents this weekend. (laughter) Yeah, they may struggle with that. Here’s something that I’m curious about with you all, because, you know, hearing – obviously so much the work we do is about the conversations so that we can have better relationships. And, you know, hearing you talk, Rebecca, about, you know, not making things taboo, having open conversations, being transparent with it. The thing that was coming up for me as you were talking is there’s a lot of people who have never experienced that kind of conversation in their family. And I’m curious to know, again, as an outsider observing your family, you’ve gone through a lot of difficult stuff together, and I’m curious like, how do you feel like how you’ve previously communicated your values as a family contributed to you being able to more quickly step into that honest and truthful place. And the reason I ask that is, you know, we’re just big proponents of, how do we start having those more honest, vulnerable conversations when things aren’t hard and aren’t tricky, so that it can make it easier. So I’m just and this could be for both of you, you know, and maybe my observations or perceptions of your family is different and not accurate, and you can correct me on that. But I’m curious about how knowing that you went through breast cancer, knowing that you went through a divorce, knowing that you went through a number of challenges, how do you feel like that set your family up to be able to face what’s a really difficult diagnosis?
Oh, I think we developed a sort of communal black sense of humor.
Yeah. (laughs)
Rebecca Christian
And that was very helpful. And also not being afraid to talk about these difficult subjects, but not to dwell on them over much either.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah.
Rebecca Christian
And enjoying the time together. And maybe you know a candle burns a little brighter towards the end. And then you might feel like you’re you’re really, this is a shining time, and you know it’ll get darker, but just to appreciate the the shining time that you still have.
Sarah Noll Wilson
That’s beautiful. I know – we love you Rebecca, so much.
Rebecca Christian
Well, right back at you, girl.
Sarah Noll Wilson
How – I’m curious, like knowing that the two of you have been so close for so long. How has this shifted your relationship together as mother and daughter?
Rebecca Christian
I’ll let Kate start with that one.
Kate Thompson
Kind of on that previous point. I think mom has always supported me, but in a very pragmatic way, like when I got divorced recently, she didn’t make it about her. She didn’t, you know, get upset on my behalf or being so worried about my kids. She has just been very, very firm, foremost, concerned about me, and also just a practical, How can I help? What do you need to talk about? Just always on my team. So I think, I think, Mom, you have modeled the way that you support me and my brothers and all of your many, many friends. There’s so many people that believe mom is their best friend, you know.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. (laughter)
Kate Thompson
That has modeled how you want to be supported. You don’t, when somebody comes to you with a problem, you don’t fall apart and say, oh, oh, that’s so terrible for you. I’m so upset on your behalf. You know, you just say, How can I help? Or, That sounds hard. You know, if there isn’t a practical way to help, you are just a great listener. So I feel like you show people how you want to be helped. Hopefully, if I do that with my kids and support them, then when I reach your age, we can have more open conversation about what I might need.
Rebecca Christian
This is a little bit off the subject, but one thing I have noticed about having Alzheimer’s, kind of a good outcome, is that two of my grandkids are on the autism spectrum, and one has Downs, and so I feel a different kind of a kinship with them. A little bit more of an ability to realize that I’m a little bit of an outsider and they’re a little bit of outsiders, too, and so I think I connect with them a little bit more deeply, and don’t think, oh, gosh, I feel sorry for you. Or, why are you doing that? It’s just more, more ease, I think.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. You know, it’s, I feel like, anytime you experience something, at least, this is how, this is how I describe it for myself is I feel like, when I go through something really challenging or painful, it opens up my capacity for greater empathy. Because you can understand it intellectually, but that’s very different than living it day in and day out and even and even to that point of hearing the language you use, of feeling like an outsider. I think that’s an important thing for people, for all of us to be paying attention to of, we may not view you as that, or we may not view somebody as that, but they may be experiencing that. And so what does it look like to fully see them and be with them, and, you know, hear them, and just all the things that humans we all want. We all want to be seen and heard and respected and protected. When you look towards what the next chapter is going to bring, what are you both hopeful for?
Rebecca Christian
I’ll let Kate start. I have to ponder that for a minute. So I’ll let Kate answer that.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah.
Kate Thompson
I hope we can keep having open conversation about what you need and what kind of support you want. I think that is you had asked how the mother daughter relationship has changed, and I think that that can be challenging because you’re in charge, you know, you’re the, you’re the person –
Sarah Noll Wilson
The matriarch.
Kate Thompson
Yes. And so that can be, that can be a challenge to know when to help out with something and do it in a way that doesn’t feel patronizing. So I hope we can keep talking about those things and, you know, just finding sometimes there’s just little trips and tips and tricks. So – for example, we you know, later at night we’re making plans for the next morning. I think we were in a stressful situation. We were going to a funeral the next day, that’s what it was. And we were making plans for the morning, and we kept, kind of like having the same conversation about what time we were getting up, did we have enough alarm set and and I remember at one point saying, Well, I would like you to trust me that I’ve got it under control, and it’s all, we’re all set for the morning. And you just said, Okay. (laughter) And went to sleep, you know. And so, I’m like, oh, all right, so that gave me a – so the next day, had the conversation of, is it okay to do that? If you are stressed is it okay for me to just say, You know what, you know, I have it under control, or my brothers do, or whoever’s going to be, there’s somebody at the helm, and you don’t have to know, you know – I don’t know if we’ve mentioned this yet, but like, dates, plans, times are particularly challenging, especially if there’s multiple things in a sequence, which, interestingly, it’s the same thing with my kids, right? We don’t really need to worry about, like, where are we going next? And we don’t have to have the full picture of a day or a week or what have you. So just finding ways like that, that we can, that feel okay, that don’t feel like I’m taking over or John’s taking over. And I know one thing you’ve said is you’re more comfortable now living in the present, and that, that’s been one of the gifts of this is you’re not thinking about what’s happening three or four things down the road.
Rebecca Christian
Yeah.
Kate Thompson
You’re, you’re appreciating what you’re doing right now.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Which sounds a lot like you, Kate, sitting down and enjoying that one piece of chocolate.
Kate Thompson
Eat that chocolate!
Sarah Noll Wilson
Just, I feel like that’s a metaphor for this is, don’t worry about getting the basket full of chocolate. Just, just eat the chocolate that’s in front of you and savor it. What would you what would you like to add Rebecca, if anything?
Rebecca Christian
And the question was looking towards the future?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yes. So the question, yeah, just like, what you know, or think about, like, goals, or how do you want to be?
Rebecca Christian
I think more, I always like the Beatles song, Let It Be. And I kind of think that I’m just at the point of letting it be without no, you know, no pity parties and no struggling to be what I can’t anymore. I do have some practical things, like, I’ve been writing a column for a newspaper now since 1989 and I feel like I’m slipping a little bit, and I’m, right now I’m thinking about maybe I should leave before I’m asked to, you know, because that’s so hard for the people that I’ve been working with. So deciding is my writing still good, you know, can I be trusted with one task or another that, you know, I used to be able to juggle a lot of balls, you know, at one time, and now I’m very much one thing at a time kind of a person. And yeah, I remember once when I was, when my son George was a baby, and I was interviewing a guy that was the editor of a word magazine that I liked a lot, Verbatim. He was an elderly gentleman, and I was sitting at the kitchen table with my electric typewriter in front of me, and then the baby was across me, and he was nursing. And the man asked me, what is this, the oddest sound, the oddest sound on the phone. (laughter) And I said, Oh, I think it just must be something with the telephone wire. (laughter) And so, you know that, I was, I was accustomed to a lot of multitasking, a lot of making do, a lot of deadlines, a lot of people in my life. And of course, you know, at times, taking care of my mother and my father as they got older, and my grandparents and so I think my, my motto is just Let It Be for now.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. I think that’s so beautiful, you know? I mean, it’s – and that doesn’t mean there, you don’t also grieve, right?
Rebecca Christian
Oh right.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Like, that’s part of being present is also just like, yeah, this is hard, and it’s okay that this is, this is hard right now, and how to be present with that as well. Because I think sometimes that can be really hard for folks too, to give themselves the space to just feel whatever it is they’re feeling –
Rebecca Christian
Right.
Sarah Noll Wilson
In a way that’s productive, right? And not, not a spiral.
Rebecca Christian
Oh, I’m still waiting for the big cry, because I hadn’t. I waited a long time to have a big cry when each of my parents died or other really bad stuff happened, and so I’m just encouraging myself to let myself be sad now and then.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I am so grateful for the two of you, and I want to, I want to give space for if there’s anything that we didn’t cover or talk about that you think is really important for us to mention. I mean, obviously we will share in the show notes about, you know, like resources and references. But is there anything that we didn’t talk about that you wanted to make sure we covered?
Kate Thompson
I’m just thinking this conversation. Thank you, Sarah, because it we do tend to err on the pragmatic and hilarious side, I think, and I would describe both of us as pretty stoic people. We’re empathetic listeners to others, but sometimes it’s harder to like you said, to access those those deep feelings. And so these opportunities where we’ve been doing some interviews. I think it’s, you know, it’s nice for me too to kind of see the big picture a little bit more, and to get to think about, how are we handling things? And be present with you in that present moment, I’ve inherited that multitasking, busy spirit as well. There’s just a lot of things we want to do.
Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s a lot of things you want to do. And you’re also a woman and you’re a mother, and those are all pre existing conditions for having to manage way more than you should ever be asked to manage. So let’s just –
Kate Thompson
Well, I guess I would say too, Mom, I just admire so much the way that you’ve handled this, and it’s similar to the way that you’ve handled a lot of difficult things, and you’re very inspirational to me. And I was telling my son this morning that I – Oh, I said, we’re going to do an interview about Alzheimer’s. And Carl said, Would you please never talk about that again? And I said, You know what, I’ll drop it for now, but I’m really proud of your grandmother, that she is willing to talk not just to us, but to the public about things that are pretty scary and private, and I hope I like that when I’m hurried. So thanks for doing that, mom.
Rebecca Christian
Oh, you bet. It’s a, really such a pleasure to be with you too now as two grown up women, and remembering the bright eyed bushy tailed little girl you were Sarah (laughs) and you Kate, with your your dreaming, your dreaminess and your bookishness. (laughter) It’s just completing as or not really completing, but some of those circles, those are very, those make me very happy.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Well, thank you both so much for inviting us. I mean, I know we invited you, but I feel this was very sacred to me to be invited into the conversations you all have. And no doubt that this will be valuable for our listeners to hear about this and you know, and for people who are listening like I said, we will share in the show notes, we’ll also share ways to access Rebecca’s writings, which are fantastic, as well as being able to contact Kate. She is an amazing advocate and educator when it comes to understanding neurodiversity. So I’ll give the lovely plug for Kate, that if you’re interested in somebody coming and helping you understand how to create a more safe and inclusive environment, she’s your lady. But I just, I love you both so much and so deeply, and it has been such a gift to have you both in my life. And Rebecca, I mean, you’re, you know, you’re the you might be, the one friend mom that’s still in my life in such a meaningful way. And I just thank you for your support over the years. Thank you for encouraging my writing. Thank you for just being such a role model of what a powerful woman can look like in this world, and this conversation is no different. So thank you.
Kate Thompson
Thank you so much, Sarah.
Rebecca Christian
Thank you. I feel very honored to be on your show.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Our guests this week have been Rebecca Christian and Kate Thompson. And friends, you can imagine how important and also difficult this conversation was. I have looked up to Rebecca since you know, my late childhood and early teens. And I just feel the need to say how inspired I am by the way she is showing up for herself and others and her family with so much grace and elegance and curiosity and a sense of humor and wonder. And I’m really grateful that we were able to capture this very important conversation and that I had the privilege of sharing two of my favorite people with all of you. So thank you for listening, and as always, we want to hear from you. What resonated for you, what came up for you? Maybe some of you are in a similar situation. I know so many of my colleagues and friends are navigating this with their own parents or for themselves. So you can always reach out at podcast @ sarahnollwilson dot com, again, that’s podcast @ sarahnollwilson dot com. I also want to make sure that I share Kate’s contact information, because I skipped over that I didn’t mean to. But if you’re interested in learning more about the work she does, working with organizations, highly recommend you connect with her on LinkedIn. Her personal email is Katecthompson @ icloud dot com and again, we’ll put that in the show notes, along with some other resources for you.
If you would like to support the show, there’s two ways you can do it, my friends. The first is, be sure to rate, review and subscribe to the show on your preferred podcast platform. This allows us to sustain the show, get exposure, so we can continue to have really important conversations, like the one we had today. Also, if you’re interested in supporting us financially, you can do that by becoming a Patreon by going to patreon dot com slash conversationsonconversations, where your financial support will not only support the team that makes the show possible, you’ll also get early episodes, no ads, and access to some pretty great and limited edition podcast swag. So who doesn’t want that? So please, please consider contributing to our show. Speaking of the team that makes this show possible, this is a family affair, so I am so excited to give thanks and shout out to our producer Nick Wilson, to our sound editor Drew Noll, to our transcriptionist Becky Reinert, our marketing consultant Jessica Burdg, and the rest of the SNoWCo crew. And just such deep gratitude as I say thank you to you, Kate and you, Rebecca, for showing up today and showing up every day. I’m so grateful for you both. Okay, my friends, this wraps up another episode of Conversations On Conversations. Thank you so much for listening, for showing up for us and for yourself. And remember when we can change the conversations we have with ourselves and others. We can change the world. So until next time, please be sure to rest, rehydrate, and we’ll see you again soon.
Sarah Noll Wilson is on a mission to help leaders build and rebuild teams. She aims to empower leaders to understand and honor the beautiful complexity of the humans they serve. Through her work as an Executive Coach, an in-demand Keynote Speaker, Researcher, Contributor to Harvard Business Review, and Bestselling Author of “Don’t Feed the Elephants”, Sarah helps leaders close the gap between what they intend to do and the actual impact they make. She hosts the podcast “Conversations on Conversations”, is certified in Co-Active Coaching and Conversational Intelligence, and is a frequent guest lecturer at universities. In addition to her work with organizations, Sarah is a passionate advocate for mental health.