Episode 052: A Conversation on ADHD with Kristin Sauter

Join Sarah Noll Wilson and guest Kristin Sauter as they discuss their personal experiences with ADHD, and how they have been changed by their diagnoses.

About Our Guest

Kristin Sauter, a Co-Active Leadership Coach, is a native German who brings an international perspective to her coaching through her past work in the UK, the United States, Germany and points in between. Kristin’s work with Sarah and many leaders across the U.S. has allowed her to build a deeper understanding and appreciation of people-focused leadership, what Kristin terms, “PEOPLESHIP.” Kristin shares her passion and advocacy for mental well-being in her coaching with the belief in unashamedly sharing experiences and exploring healthier paths to emotional fitness using the principle of Positive Intelligence.

Episode Transcript

Kristin Sauter
Hello and welcome to this week’s episode of Conversations on Conversations, where each week we explore a topic to help us have more powerful conversations with ourselves and each other. I am your host, Sarah Noll Wilson and joining me today is my dear friend, colleague, sister, Kristen Sauter. So let me tell you a little bit about Kristin. So Kristin is an incredible colleague of ours on our team, and we realized that this is the first time you all are hearing from her. She is incredible and I’m really excited about this conversation. So let me give you a little bit of the formal background to introduce you. Kristin Sauter is a co-active leadership coach. She’s a native German who brings an international perspective to her coaching through her past work in the UK, the United States, Germany, and points in between. Kristin works with us and our many leaders across the US, which has allowed her to build a deeper understanding and appreciation of people-focused leadership, or what she likes to call peopleship. Kristin shares her passion and advocacy for mental well being and her coaching with a belief in unashamedly sharing experiences and exploring healthier paths to emotional fitness, using the principles of Positive Intelligence. So that’s your very formal bio. Kristen, what else would you like our audience to know about you?

Well, I’m a mom, (laughs) I’m a mom. I, yeah, I used to live around the world, as you just shared. Back in Germany, what for two and a half years now. And yeah, very much enjoy life here back in Munich, where it all started, but my lovely husband, and now with a child. And yeah, I really much enjoy working on the very things that I got to work with you for about two and a half years back in the US. Yeah, and continue to work, the amazing work that we, that I started with you, you’d been doing for some time, and when I joined the team, it was just fantastic. Working with teams, working with leaders and adding my spin to it a little and, you know, now changing into a more – changed a bit of career and focus as well. You know, coaching has become my main focus, which is absolutely fantastic.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, awesome. Well welcome. We, Kristin was one of one of the OG team members.

Kristin Sauter
Yeah.

Sarah Noll Wilson
We met and I said, I don’t know what I’m gonna have you do. But I really value what you bring and your perspective and your personality is different, although similar and complementary, and so we’ll find a spot and it’s been really incredible to see this evolution that we’ve grown up together a bit and now to see the work that you’re doing with our clients. Okay, so folks, you know, Kristin and I, we had a list of topics we wanted to explore. And the one that was near and dear to our heart is an experience we’ve both gone through separately and together and that is ADHD. So today, my friends, for those of you fellow busy brain folks, we want to talk about adult ADHD in particular, share a little bit about our experiences, challenges we faced, right, misdiagnosis, things that have been helpful things we’ve learned along the way. You know, just a little bit of, you know, clarification, we are not specialists in this field. So we will just be speaking from our experiences with this, but we know that we – I just was actually last night, Kristen, I was reading an article that was talking about the rise of adult diagnosis of ADHD and part of what’s contributing to the shortage of Adderall and and how there’s not currently a kind of a common framework and approach to diagnosing adults, which was really, it was just interesting timing.

Kristin Sauter
Yes, that’s interesting.

Sarah Noll Wilson
So, so let’s start. I mean, let’s start first with your experience of, of being diagnosed. Like what, like and take us – I mean, I know I was there, and I was part of it. But like – (laughs)

Kristin Sauter
All you fault, Sarah.

Sarah Noll Wilson
You’re on the list of people that I’m like, I don’t know. But I think you might want to talk – no. (laughter) But, but, but go from before the diagnosis, like what were the things you were experiencing? Maybe what was feedback you were hearing from other people, that that led you to a point where you went, “Maybe this is something that I’m struggling with that is worthy to be diagnosed.”

Speaker 1
I mean, I’ve been struggling with mental health issues for quite some time. Really, when I went through college, or university here in Germany, I started to, you know, to find myself having depression episodes of depression, and they continued when I entered the working world, and I could never really pinpoint where does this come from? There was pressure, I felt pressure as well. And then my husband Ivan moved from Munich to London, in 2009. It was a whole change, not just city or country, I decided, Oh, well, let’s also change career, you know. So as I was a consultant, supply chain consultant before, I moved into a whole different arena, marketing. Because I decided I needed more fun in my life, I needed something more exciting, more creative. And as much as that, you know, it was exciting. Maybe quickly, I found myself extremely overwhelmed, you know, no energy for some time. For the first five years, I struggled so badly with anxiety and depression. And I’ve always thought I was fighting through, I was fighting through and I could not understand why I was not making movements in my career. I was shifting from one. Let’s be honest, I was shifting from one job to another, because I felt like I wasn’t, I wasn’t doing a good enough job. So I decided I needed to find a new one. And, and that was hard. You know, of course, let’s not forget, also that I was not fluent in English as I am today, you know, everything adds up at the end and became very much overwhelming. And by 2016, I realized something is really not well, I mean, I faced like major anxiety. And I got to a point where I mean, to be perfectly honest with you, I was thinking this was it, I cannot deal with this anymore. I don’t want to, I don’t want to feel this pain anymore, that I feel. I’m not as good, I was comparing myself, of course, with others, with my coworkers. I could not make progress. And I did not understand what it was.

Kristin Sauter
So I did a lot of self diagnosing. I saw a therapist, and everybody was telling me anxiety, then I was thinking, social anxiety and things like that, you know, and they might all have been part of my journey, and how you call like conditions that come with ADHD. But I didn’t know, I feel like ADHD was on the – it was not on my radar at all. So um, and then in 2016, actually, I made a major career cut, you know, because I was not feeling I’m contributing well enough to the organization I was working for, I wasn’t doing a good enough job. You know, my motivation really trucked. And I had no energy left. So I was really on for for the for almost eight or eight years that we spend in London. I was really just dragging myself for ideas. And I didn’t understand why this was, and I didn’t feel like you know, I can thrive in the work environments I was working in. But I didn’t understand again, I did not understand why that was. I didn’t understand the underlying issue. You know, I was just thinking, I’m not capable of coping with the stress and the lifestyle that London gives you, you know, and very competitive at times. So really, um, that was my journey. A lot of like, thinking that I have different conditions and have different problems, but I was doing everything I could to, you know, get better. But everything I did, did not seem to make me you know, make me feel better. And then, of course, because of that, this is the tricky part, because you don’t get better, you’ll feel like you’re a failure. You feel you’re failing, you feel like you know, you can’t even you know, see a therapist and get better at everything. Why is this not working for me? So it’s constantly this idea of I’m failing, I’m failing, I’m failing, I’m not good enough at this I’m not, you know, why is this not getting better? Why can I not keep up my, my motivation, my energy, my work, you know, things like that. So and there are so many other things that I was good at, like networking, meeting people, you know, I was creating new events in London. And it was just there were things that I was really good at outside of work, you know, even inside of work, you know, networking, meeting people, that was all – I loved doing this. But when it came when it came to creating output, creating work and you know, in a very fast pace with deadlines and in a very highly structured way and you name it, you know, in environments where there are lots and lots of people around you, I could not function. I was really not able to function. And that changed when we moved to the US. I was thinking, Hell, a new start, this is good. (laughter)

Sarah Noll Wilson
Iowa. Let’s go from London to Iowa.

Kristin Sauter
I’ve never been to the place but I said to myself, it better be good, and it was. (laughter) It was everything I could ask for because coming from a big city like London, you know where there’s so much, there’s so much distraction, so much going on. You never stand still, you never calm down. I felt at least that way. Iowa was very much the opposite. (laugher)

Sarah Noll Wilson
A little bit slower here.

Kristin Sauter
Oh, very, very slow. But it was just a dream, honestly. Let’s call it what it is. (laughter) But it’s, it’s just – No, it really helped me to then really calm down and to really rethink, okay, what happened? What has just happened for the past eight years? You know?

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah.

Kristin Sauter
But I ADHD was still not on my radar. As you know.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I know, until our paths crossed. I, I’m trying, I was trying to remember. I mean, I think I cuz I, you and I, I mean, that was part of what we bonded over was just being really vulnerable about like mental health and the challenges we were having, and how do we, how do we do more of that work? How do we help more people think about mental health, be supportive of mental health? And, you know, and so just like, I don’t necessarily need to go into my story, or I can tell my story later. But I, I was diagnosed in January of 2018, at the age of 37. And so I was newly in this reality of understanding my brain in a different way, which made me see other people’s brains in another way. And I know you and I had had a lot of conversations around like the social anxiety. And I don’t remember what it was, but I was – I remember, there was some day where I was like, I can’t, I can’t diagnose you. But you’re saying a lot of the same things that I struggle with. And, and you know, so what, so what was it like for you? Because I know for – it’s funny, because when I think about when I was diagnosed, and I walked into my boss’s office at the time, and I was in my final weeks at ARAG, and Lisa, my boss, I went in, I was like, well, I got a healthy case of ADHD. And she was like, “Are you surprised?” And I was like, yeah. And I was like, I’ve been really successful. I’ve been, right. Like, I’ve accomplished all of this. And she was not surprised. But I do remember feeling relief because, you know, as you and I’ve talked before, and just like real quick for folks at home. I also had never had ADHD on my radar. I knew my one brother definitely did. We – undiagnosed, my dad. But he very much, this is where we, this is the lineage where we got it from. (laughs) But it was never on my radar until I started to build my own company and lost all of those structures, external pressures, all of that, like focus. And I couldn’t figure out why it wasn’t as successful there as I was in the workplace. And so what when you, you know, when you think back to finally being diag –, was it 2018 or 2019?

It was 2020.

It was 2020 when you got diagnosed?

Kristin Sauter
It was a month before we moved back actually.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Right. Right. Well, so what was that experience like for you? Because I know, I’ve heard from other people how, like, there’s just different emotions that come up, or different things that become, became clear. So in that moment of being, having that diagnosis. Yeah, just what what came up for you? What was that experience like?

Kristin Sauter
I mean, I mean, let me start a little bit before that, because you said something that really resonated with me, actually. Because I remember we had long conversations about me thinking I have social anxiety and things like, again, all the self diagnose, and it all makes sense, because they kind of overlap a little. And that’s the tricky part then to understand, maybe there’s something else because you feel like oh, this is what it is. And then I remember you saying to me have a look have a look into ADHD. I don’t know for sure but have a look. And I’m like exactly what you said earlier but no Sarah, you have ADHD, and you’re so successful. You’re good on stage, you’re good at reading fast, you know, you’re good at putting out content, all the things that I seemed to have a hard time with, you know, very much like you know, reading fast is not a thing for me. I have to read sometimes, depends on the condition and the day, I have to read the page like five times to understand even one thing.

I will get the gist, but I will not get the details. (laughs)

Writing, writing, putting putting something from the brain onto paper, sometimes feels, you need days to put anything – that that’s why marketing never worked for me, content writing never worked for me because it was just to brain heavy putting content, putting words on paper is – I can’t. I cannot, I cannot see how it’s done, you know. So but when you said, have a look into it, again, I didn’t believe that this is this is me that this could be me. And then I started to read and I’m like, oh, there’s a whole spectrum, you know, you can be anywhere on this, you know, you have everyone experiences ADHD very, very differently. And so when I had this diagnosis, finally, there was definitely relief, there was absolute relief. But again, I didn’t have enough time to process because we had a big move coming.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Right. Right.

Kristin Sauter
And then we moved to Munich, six months after we came back, we moved to Munich, so I had to find a new therapist, or somebody at least to prescribe me medication. Because I decided to go that route for medication, you know, I had a new baby and first time mom and all these changes, COVID don’t have to mention that. But you know, it was just a lot of change a lot of things going on, and I needed something to help me out. So and then I met this doctor, and she said, well, you know, the style of this diagnosis, we would either have interviews done with, you know, your parents, or, you know, teachers, if you haven’t got anything in writing from your childhood, especially from school, and I’m like, “Well, let me let me ask my mom to have a look at for these things. You know, maybe there is something still out there, and my my parents house that might be helpful.” And I texted my mom, same day, and she took a couple of photos from you know, when you get the at the end of the year, like we I don’t know how you call it in English,

Sarah Noll Wilson
Like a report card or your annual –

Kristin Sauter
So it’s a one page kind of thing, you know, feedback. And as I was going through grade one, you know, I’m like I’m reading I’m like, oh, boy. And I was going to you know, year two, and I’m like, the same thing. Kristen stares out of the window. Kristen doesn’t listen. Kristen is too chatty. Kristen, you know, you know, isn’t isn’t fast enough. Isn’t a fast enough worker, you know, and I’m like, and I’m reading through it to year six or something in school. And I was just sitting there, I was frustrated, I was angry, I was crying. I was everything. In that moment I felt everything at once, I was so angry. And we add, I didn’t even know at the moment were who I was angry with, you know, but I think if I was simply angry with the simple fact that I had lived for 39 years, not knowing that I was going through life, with such a, with such a condition, let’s say, you know, that had I known before could have really saved me so many hardships, you know, so much trouble, you know. I would have made, I think I would have made different decisions. But I was also relieved, of course, it took me a long time to accept, I have to admit, I took me a long time to accept that this is a lifelong condition that I cannot change, I can support myself to feel better during the day, but it was very much like an acceptance of okay, this is what I have. This is how it makes my life potentially more difficult. But I also had to find all the things that that are working in my favor, let’s say. That are my strength. There was a whole, a whole area of acceptance, accepting what it is.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I think that I mean, you you’re speaking to, and I suspect there are people who are listening who might resonate with that. Or there might be people like oh, that’s, that’s interesting. And I know quite a few folks who, when they were finally diagnosed as an adult, there was an incredible amount of sadness and a lot of anger. And usually what I hear from people is and I remember feeling this too, like I always had it in me to be a straight A student. Not that that’s like the only like measure of success but when you’re in school, it is the only measure of success. And, and I never could figure out like why I was like a really good A minus, B, you know, but it was always like, like, really, you know, I had so much – and I remember talking to, you know, one of my brothers, he and I have talked about this, and my cousin and some other folks are like, I always was like, I know I’m smarter than what I’m outputting right now, like, I know, I’m capable of more. But there was an incredible amount of loss and grieving –

Kristin Sauter
Absolutely.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Of the life that could have been, and I really appreciate that you brought that up. And I think that that’s something for people who aren’t neurodivergent, who haven’t, who aren’t experiencing this. Yeah, there is a lot of sadness of like, what if, like, it’s hard not to be like, well, so what would have happened had I known and not even blaming anyone, right? When we were younger, you know, largely, the only people who were diagnosed when I was a kid was, you know, hyperactive boys. And it wasn’t even on the radar, really, that it could present differently in girls. And, you know, or if you had some level of success, right? In my case, it was like, oh, she’s a good, she’s a really great student. And she’s really focused. Well, part of the reason I was a great student is because I was so afraid of disappointing people, that I was like, incredibly hard on myself. I want to take a quick moment, just for folks who are listening. You know, just to clarify some things about about ADD or ADHD. I’m really, that’s how you you call it and call it ADHD, regardless of how it manifests. But, you know, it’s, it’s the whole attention deficit, right, hyperactive hyperactivity disorder, it’s really not a deficit of attention. It’s, it’s, that’s actually it’s a that’s sort of a terrible, like, label that is, but it’s a it’s a, like regulation issue. So for people who aren’t, who are listening, and who don’t experience this or are unfamiliar with it, the the challenge is that the, you know, people who have been diagnosed with ADHD, our brains are structured differently, we process chemicals differently, right, which impact our dopamine, which impacts our electrical activity in our brain. And it’s a regulation issue. So meaning, typically, people on the with ADHD, they shift between like, like, if a neurotypical person like, oh, I can, I can turn up my attention. And I can give this a four or five, and I’m really bored, but I can like get the job done. The four or five doesn’t exist for us. It’s, it’s like an 11 on a scale of one to 10, or one or two. And it’s incredibly painful, which is why – which is why stimulants like why they prescribed stimulants is because literally, there’s a part of our brain that’s not lighting up naturally, especially when something is I mean, I hate to say it like this, but boring or not interesting, our brain just doesn’t light up to be able to do that work, and we can’t force it. Which is why stimulants are really helpful at actually calming down because they’re lighting up the part of the brain that the body is trying to move around and get and get going. So I just I wanted, I wanted to pause on that. The other thing that I wanted to share real quickly, because ADHD is definitely one of those, it’s one of those. I don’t even hate calling it a condition. I mean, it is, but it’s like a condition of our culture, right? Because like, if we – it’s a deficit because of what our society and culture expects of us. It’s a condition because I have to sit at a desk for eight hours a day doing focused attention to detail work, but let’s be real folks, Leonardo da Vinci. That dude had ADHD, did you see all the unfinished notebooks that (laughs) you know of all of his inventions that never happened? Talk to us about though, again, from your experience, that misdiagnosis because that’s really common that people with ADHD, anxiety, depression can come as a result of the ADHD and I’m just curious to hear more about your experience.

Kristin Sauter
Yeah really, I mean, and there are conditions and mental health issues that you know, they coexist with ADHD. They’re basically mostly mostly they they start later because of all the all the mistreatment that you potentially face in school or at home you know, most people probably get called lazy at some point because you know, what you just described this like, it’s harder for us to to get motivated and to to stick with a task if it doesn’t lit up you know, the chemicals if it doesn’t, doesn’t do anything, you know, so and then we get actually labeled many things like you being lazy. You just have to put more effort.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, just put that checklist. Just create a checklist, Sarah.

Kristin Sauter
The thing is, yeah, yes, you need to have a time – oh, how often did I hear, you need to have a Time Management –

Sarah Noll Wilson
Project management, number one goal every year in corporate America.

Kristin Sauter
Yeah, put another training on me, I tell him now I will stick to it maybe for two minutes and then that’s it, you know, because I’ve tried. And here’s the thing, one of the things that really people need to understand is, and where I guess also a lot of like anxiety and depression comes in at some point, as we have been doing so much over the life that we’ve already been living, we have already tried to fit in so much, we have already tried to be neurotypical, when there is no mold for us, we won’t be able to fit in that mold of a neurotypical person, you know, in a system in our society, that is not if there isn’t no factors for us, they don’t even consider what it takes for somebody with a neurodiverse brain, you know, to even exist on this earth. And it’s, we already have done so much. That’s why I always keep saying, we are the most resilient people that you could probably ever meet, because we have been getting up over and over and over again, because we had to stand up every time that we felt, that we felt, that we thought we failed again. You know, we and like me, you know, in my career, I felt – how often did I feel like I failed again, I did not make – I studied, I put all those hard work, you know, I studied for – I started in a normal time, but it took me so much more effort to even get through this. I didn’t understand why this is. And this is also where you feel like I’m not smart enough. I’m simply not know, simply my brain and not you know, capable of reading a book from A to Z, you know, in a week’s time, I because there are millions of things that my brain also wants to do. But then sticking through a task, sticking through a project was actually a major win for us. And I feel like you know, you’ve you’ve put on so much more effort than most people can even think about or can even comprehend, because it takes us so much more time. Now, if you don’t know that you have ADHD, and that this is part of the condition. Yes, then anxiety and depression is very much, very much there. Because of all the things you tell yourself or the stories you get told by other people. So, so you’re watching society, by even just watching society, watching your friends, watching co-workers. You know, there’s there’s all this I mean, it’s, we could probably talk about this topic for weeks and we wouldn’t even finish, because everyone also experiences very, very different.

Sarah Noll Wilson
One of the things that I know, that is really common, and you and you spoke to this when you were talking about like just the cycle of failure, and the cycle of what’s wrong with me is in honestly, like, I’m probably at a place now where it doesn’t come up as often. But it’s the shame. It’s the you know, the I call – for me personally, I call it the shame train, right? What’s wrong with me? Why can’t I figure this out? I should be able, right shoulding on myself, I should be able to do this. And in the beginning, for me when I was starting to build the business on the side, I mean, I I would have calls with people. And I would think yeah, I’ll remember that. And I didn’t, because I didn’t know at the time that my short term memory was absolute shit and like, and then I would write it in a notebook to keep myself organized, but I would write in whatever notebook I had in front of me. And then you know, it was just, it would just trigger this zero to 60. Like, what I’m the worst person in the world, why can I figure this out? And I think that’s something important for people, you know, who are listening, and especially if they have loved ones who are neurodivergent, really in any way, when you don’t fit the mold it’s really easy. And that’s not even just neurodivergent let’s name this when you do not fit the mold of the dominant culture, whatever that is, wherever you’re at. So if you’re in America, right, if you’re a person of color versus being white, if you’re an atheist versus being a you know, like in a religious, if you are a woman, not a man, if you are right, like not within the like, right age, and you’re too old, are you too young, right? Like when you do not fit the mold it’s really easy for self doubt to creep in, because you go what’s wrong with me that I can’t show up in this way. And you know, it’s like, boy, I think about the conversation we had with Neha early on in the season about impostor syndrome that was so transformative for me. And she said, you know, imposter syndrome shows up when people are trying to exist in systems that weren’t built for them. And so I’m curious to hear like, what resonates for you because that that shame can also show up as a diagnosable condition the RSD.

Kristin Sauter
Oh, yes, yeah.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I would love to have you kind of expand on that.

Kristin Sauter
I’ll be talking about shame as and when you were diagnosed afterwards or even before?

Sarah Noll Wilson
I mean, before and after. I mean, like I was diagnosed, and I still like I that was one of the things I had to catch was when my brain would go into autopilot of shaming myself, because I had 37 years of conditioning in my brain to be like, “Why am I not good enough? Why can’t I figure this out?” And part of that was because like, my brain wasn’t designed to figure it out in the same way – I can figure it out, I can figure it out in a way that works for me, but I might not figure it out in a way that will work for everyone else.

Kristin Sauter
I think for me, it shows up probably similar, but I feel a lot of shame. And I have to be very transparent here, became a mom before I had a diagnosis. And being a mom that comes a lot of like different, a different level of pressure, almost, you know, when your child is, you know, three and really acting not the way you’d like to do. Because you really want that child to just sit in a corner, be quiet all day, not my child.

Sarah Noll Wilson
(laughs)

Kristin Sauter
And, you know, there’s a, there’s a whole level of impulsivity that sometimes comes in, and that’s where I have my shame has creeped them very bad. Because sometimes I, I am very impulsive with my child, especially in the mornings when I want to get ready. But, you know, I want to get out of the house, but he doesn’t. And I think a lot of parents can speak to that no matter neurodiverse or not, you know, but I think where where my shame comes in is that my threshold or you know, the level of, you know, acceptance that he might need another two minutes is almost not existing. Now or never, we’ll never get ready now. And sometimes, you know, I find myself just, you know, increasing my voice slightly more than I should, you know, and that is where I feel more shame for me comes in that I feel like I cannot do, I cannot do motherhood well enough, you know, I have to yell at my child to get ready, you know, but again, that could also of course, I know that other parents go through similar challenges, especially the morning routines and things, but I feel like maybe I’m where I am coming in much earlier than them. You know, I feel that’s where my shame comes in a lot. You know. Other examples are same as you, following up with people, you know, or, you know, you know, texting people back sometimes it takes me weeks. (laughter) But I’m not. But here’s the funny part is I’m not I’m not doing this deliberately.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.

Kristin Sauter
I was reading at some point, you know, when it’s out of your sight, it’s out of your mind which radiates with people with ADHD. This is so true. This is so true. Because when that text message, let’s say on WhatsApp creeps down, you know, you know, and it’s not in your sight anymore. This is gone. You have to scroll.

Sarah Noll Wilson
It just doesn’t exist.

Kristin Sauter
And then I’m like, Oh, my God, I’m so sorry. You know, and this is where shame of course comes in because I don’t want people feel like I ignored them. But it’s, it’s so hard because life is just moving on. And there are so many fun, funny things that happen in a small, you know, you want to pay attention to and you shouldn’t, your brain tells you, you should.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, well and like because most of us are lacking in dopamine, right? We’re sort of chasing those dopamine hits a little bit, you know, and I think that’s a good good thing. Again, for people who are neurotypical who are listening to this is that it really is if it’s out of sight, it’s out of mind, you know, and, and it doesn’t mean that it’s not with ill intentions, it doesn’t or doesn’t mean that it’s because of ill intentions. And again, this is where it can be really easy for people who don’t experience to shame people with this, like, well, you should just do this. And it was like, that’s cute. Like, do you know how often and not to say that you can’t develop compensating things. Right? Like, I just, you know, I mean, part of it is I, the day I got diagnosed, came home and I was like time to hire an assistant. I cannot, I just can’t do it on my own and it was never going to be successful. And even now, like I’ve gotten better about, “Hey, Amy, this is something personal that I want to do for somebody but it doesn’t come for two months. So can you just set a reminder and help me right like, help make sure that I get it done?”

I think it’s important to talk to people about different ways it can manifest or different challenges. So, you know, a couple of things I know about myself is, and this was one of the this was part of my diagnosis, like my assessment was, you know, they test your cognitive, right like your, your, your speed, your cognitive speed, and recall and like all these different things. And so for me, I’m like, off, I’m off the chart, I mean, I’m not going to be like, Oh, I’m really smart. But like my brain, I have a really, really fast brain. Anyone listening to this, like podcast shouldn’t be surprised by that.

Kristin Sauter
I can attest to that.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I have a really, really fast brain. And, and in other areas, cognitively, I’m really I scored really, really high. But my short term memory was like 50%. And the thing that was so interesting is when my therapist was breaking down the results, she said, “You know, so for you, even though that’s average, like, that’s not bad, that’s not an F, that’s average. But when your brain is so used to operating in a different level, when something feels average, it feels worse.” And so so things like short term memory is very real. Name and face blindness, very real, like that is something that I can know you for years, and love you. And we can have a really close relationship. And I could potentially forget your name and potentially not pick you out. And like I don’t have like total face blindness. But because my short term memory is so bad, right? Like, it takes a little bit for people to get in. But even if I know somebody, right, the name can escape. Some people have issues being able to focus depending on sensory things. So for me, like the more visual clutter that exists, the harder it is for my brain to be able to focus. Whereas say, like I have a friend who, it’s like, the more audio like auditory is really difficult. And the other thing that I just want to share again, like I feel like I’m just like, I want people who don’t have this to understand that it’s real, and it’s really frustrating sometimes, is like many people with ADHD, the part of the brain that takes in information and can help you prioritize just doesn’t work. And so instead of, you know, so I’ll use my mom, as an example, my mom is beautifully neurotypical, I did not get that from her. And she could see a messy room. And she will know, she can take in all that information. And her brain can just like organize it and go, I’m gonna start here, and then I’m gonna start here. And then we do this, and then we do this, and then we do this. That shit doesn’t exist in my brain, I walk into our, you know, storage closet, and I’m like, I physically feel pain, because my brain is taking it all in, and then it just can’t sort it. So I need somebody to go like, here’s my box. What are some other like experiences, symptoms that you would add to that?

Kristin Sauter
Very much to that as you’re buying, you’re buying a shelf, let’s say somewhere, the best probably –

Sarah Noll Wilson
Ordering it on IKEA. (laughter)

Kristin Sauter
And then you have to figure out this whole menu of things, how to assemble this very simple IKEA shelf. And it has like pages to pages. It’s very small, it’s so small that you can’t you know, now I have glasses because I’m getting old, but you know, really, and then I have to give it to somebody, mostly my husband and say, read this thing, explained to me in five sentences what I have to do, and I do it for you.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kristin Sauter
It’s just like, you know, comprehending what is like what I’m reading and then processing what I’m reading and then doing something with that information sometimes, especially when it’s like in a very structured way. I feel like, Oh, I’m out.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Well, yeah. Well and then and then you add on the impulsivity, right? That can exist for some people. And you’re like, yeah, just give it to me. (laughter) I mean, that was one of the like, I don’t know if this was part of your assessment, but they – I had to do this like computer thing in mine. You know what I’m talking about? Everyone who’s gone through this is knows why we’re laughing. Like, depending on how you’re assessed, you know, there’s lots of, there’s interviews and there’s questions and there’s like brain teasers. And then there’s this like, they set you down at a computer by yourself. And it’s a really simple activity and the activity (laughter) I mean, you know where I’m going with this. So the activity is hit this button when you see the like, when you see the word brown, right or hit this button when you see the color brown and then it kind of like that’s basically it. But it says we’re going to we’re going to train you. Like we’re going to teach you how to do this And it’s a really simple activity. And unbeknownst to me, like, I was like, Yeah, I got it. And it was like, I just start hitting Enter, over and over and over, like, come on, I got it. Like, I don’t need to keep testing. Like, I don’t need to train. I’ve got it, like, give me the test, guys good. And then and then it progressively gets harder, right? All of that. And when my therapist was giving me the results, she said, “So your impulsivity is very high.” (laughter) And I was like, “Well, how do you know?” And she was like, “You hit the enter key, like 66 times to try to get out of that training, because your brain was like, yeah, yeah, I got it. I got it. I got it.” But, but that can be like, that can be amazing. And it can be problematic, you know, but your gosh, your point, I don’t know, did you do that?

Kristin Sauter
Mm hmm.

Sarah Noll Wilson
(laughs) You’re just like, come on. I’m good. Like, yeah, yeah, Brown. Color brown and the word red. I got it. We’re gonna be mixing these up. And let’s go. It’s, I think that’s like one I mean, it’s definitely one of the indicators. My, my brother he was when he got tested. He was, he was like, the clock was so damn loud. And I was like, it’s this part of the test? Like, am I getting distracted by the clock? And he’s like, I never got confirmation, but I’m, I’m pretty sure. Other things people should I mean, like, what else would you add? So like that comprehension of like complex texts can be difficult, because like, we just can’t hold focus.

Kristin Sauter
One of the things that was a major struggle for me, but only I’ve not, I noticed now, because I have the opposite. I have the diagnosis. I understand what what it is with me that I struggle with when it comes to ADHD. And looking back, especially with my London time, you know, during my time in London and working in a corporate world over there, sitting in an open office.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.

Kristin Sauter
it’s been, it’s been so difficult. And actually, just today, as I was thinking about this podcast, I was realizing what I was doing to compensate for all the missed hours that I was sitting at my desk when everyone was around, what I was doing to compensate for the missed work, because I couldn’t concentrate, I was coming into the office much earlier. And I was leaving as one of the last because it was very quiet. And also, another thing I realized is, where I was, in my last workplace, we didn’t have any designated desks, which is hard when you have 300 people in an open office, and you have to find your, any desk.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.

Kristin Sauter
And I was always going for something that is quiet. And I didn’t understand, of course, at the time, I didn’t know why I needed something that is more remote, more away from anyone else, and more quiet. Now I understand. So structure, having something in place that really, of course, if I understand that I have this and I can choose and pick what I need in order to, you know, create content or do a really good job. You know, having that in places is very, very important and valuable actually, for somebody with ADHD. So any workplaces that are open offices, I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised if you find people wanting now that we had COVID wanting to work from home way more often than going into an office building where there is so much noise and distraction around you know, so, so distractions for me, definitely noise, visuals, anything. And then also don’t forget as distraction is also a fault, you know. So if you get really bored for example, you have no dopamine hits coming up, nothing happens. You have your distraction become your thoughts sometimes. And even if you have to focus on something, there are stories you shared, there are things you think about, you know, distraction that your brain comes up with. And you also get it doesn’t have to be anything from from from the external world. You know, it can also be an internal distraction.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, and that’s and that’s such a good point because you know, one one of the you know, there’s there’s it’s interesting because online I feel like there’s this debate of you know, people are like there’s gifts and there’s superpowers and people are like, it sucks and I’m not going to pretend. You know, but there are strengths we have because of it. You know, but one of the things that I just wanted to name off as you were talking that was coming up for me is that one of the one of the reasons or like ways anxiety and depression and OCD can become attached to ADHD, the ADHD brain, if you will, is hyper focus is a very real thing, folks. And when you’re hyper focused on ruminating, when you’re hyper focused on a negative thought spiral, it is intense, and it’s persistent. And it’s really difficult to disrupt sometimes. So hyper focus, you know, is the when we talked earlier about that regulating, is that just like, watch out when someone who has ADHD is in full hyper focus mode, because honestly, there were times where and I was, I was so fortunate that even before I was diagnosed, my leader, Lisa, like figured this out about me, she was just like, I knew once you got in the zone, if you were like, I’m in it, I’m gonna stay up, I’m gonna stay here till seven and just finish it, like I knew you would crank out more in those four or five hours and you would all week, you know, like, you could just get into it. And so that’s, I think that’s really important for people who have it, for people who love people who have it, who work with people is like, what, what are the conditions to help support that hyperfocus. And once it happens, like, just let that train happen, because again, you’re just going to be able to get some much more, and I’m going to interrupt myself. And what I’m reflecting on is our heavy meeting culture. Like constantly having meetings and meetings and meetings and shifting focus and being distracted. Like we can ride that really effectively. The problem is we never get the space to like get into hyper focus mode. Which might work really well for like a neurotypical, probably not let’s be real, it doesn’t really work for anyone. But it’s especially difficult for you know, those of us with ADHD.

Kristin Sauter
Absolutely, ya no, I started talking about, like, you know, the strength and positive traits, and people call them superpowers, there are so many really, that we can tap into, especially, you know, when, especially in the working world, you know, I feel like a people with ADHD are often overlooked, because people see only the negative, oftentimes, you know, all of the things that we have talked about, you know, distractions and not being able to remember names, and you know, not being able to read a book from from start to finish, things like that, you know, which is all very true, and it’s very painful. However, there are so many, so many positive traits that we praying that, I feel like, it could be so beneficial to a lot of organizations, if they were just to figure out how to support people with, you know, neurotypical neurodiverse people, and we’re not talking about just ADHD, there’s so many different conditions that fall like autism, dyslexia, things like that.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Tourette’s.

Kristin Sauter
Yes. But, yes, so really, everyone brings something to the table that any organization in any formal way could benefit from. I mean, you and I, of course, you and I speak the same language because we understand one another. I’m so grateful, by the way, I have to mention this. Now, I’m so grateful that you at a point, you know, said to me, you might want to look into this. I wish I had somebody like you in my life before, you know, and it doesn’t matter if you were my manager or boss at the time, you know, or a friend but but really, what I wanted, the point I want to make here is if if either you have condition yourself, an ADHD condition, or you know someone and you have a friend or co worker, or a team member where you feel like, this sounds familiar to what I experienced, or I have witnessed with somebody else, I that I know, I would highly recommend pointing this out. I mean, really, what harm can it do? You’re, you’re sharing information about your experience, either with yourself or somebody else. And giving somebody a chance to look into something they might have never looked into never really thought that this could be a possibility for them, like with you, you know, I never even afterwards I was really questioning this is not me, cannot cannot be me. And here we are. You know.

Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s interesting, because I feel like, the more the more I’ve talked about it with people, especially when I was first diagnosed, it was a substantial number of folks that were like, I think, I think you just described me, but not everyone. I mean, this is the thing that’s really important. Nick is very neurotypical, that doesn’t mean that I mean, this is the thing that people will be like, Yeah, but we all get distracted with our phones, we all get – we do right phones are a whole different beast because they’re designed for addiction. But, but we all have moments of distractibility. We all have moments when we struggle with prioritization. It’s just not persistent. That’s the difference is that like Nick, Nick can sit down and he can, you know, he can focus on a you know, a drawing or a project or like okay, this is what I need to do even if it’s like he might not want to but he can like get himself. And it is like pulling chains for me to get there. And you know, and one of the things that I wanted to go back to that, you know, strength is, and again, everyone’s different. I love that point you made about like, everyone’s really capable. They just need to be supported. And so part of it is how do, if you’re a leader, how do you educate yourself more on neurodivergency and all of the different shades of it? What are the things you can put into place because again, like, I wasn’t diagnosed, but Lisa knew how to manage me, she figured she she was familiar enough with it to know, I need to help Sarah prioritize. I need to be really explicit with her, I need to create deadlines for her, right. And that was never never felt condescending or anything like that. It was exactly what I needed. And I thrived under her. Like I thrived under her because she she knew the container. Like we always joke that, we always joked that she was like, “I know that I just need to give you as long of a leash as possible. But you still need a little leash.” And I was like, yeah, no, I do need like that, that that control or that structure. But you know, one of the things that we talked about, you’re probably noticing this maybe in the middle of this interview, but it’s just that ability to make connections between things that other people may not. The, you know, being potentially like more expressive sometimes. And I mean, there’s there are a lot of gifts like I always love when I’m on stage. And I always joke like, you can interrupt me I did 10 years of improv, and I have a very healthy case of ADHD. Because we can often sometimes we can shift quickly in the moment, sometimes to our detriment.

But one of the things, you know, I would be remiss if we didn’t talk about strategies, because everyone is different. And just like you said, it presents differently for everyone. And one of the biggest gifts that I got, when I was working, first working with my therapist, who I love, like I that was just like a life changing for me to have somebody like her. Was she said, “You have to understand that all of the tools that are out there for this are largely designed for a neurotypical brain. They’re not designed for your brain. And you need to figure out what’s your manual,” is what she said, “We need to figure out the Sarah manual.” So she said, even if it seems ridiculous, we have to figure out the Sarah manual. So for example, you know, like sometimes setting a timer works for me, like I’m gonna work for 20 minutes uninterrupted, I have an app that is like a tree grows. And if you’d get distracted from the app, it’s like your tree is dying and you’re killing the tree. Like there’s something about that, that that helps keep me focused. But the other thing I know is if I’m doing a really mundane task if I do it with someone like you know there are times where I’ll be like Teresa, just fold laundry and let me talk this out and then I can just get it done. And I just I’m learning to be unapologetic about like this is just what I need in order to do this. What are some of the things that you have found to be helpful?

Kristin Sauter
I think again for me, if I get a chance to decide where I want to work during the day or that on a specific day where I feel like I’ve already had a morning or I cannot I cannot go and see people today because I feel like my brain are what is so destructive I’m so you know all over the place. I need quiet time. I need pure quiet time. No noise, no nothing around me. Then I also, like you, become unapologetic to say okay, I need to be home today, I need to be here because it works best for me. Other things that help helped a ton is I now exercise regularly. And I’m not doing it – you know, my my goal has become different. My goal is not to lose weight. Yes, would love to lose some weight? Absolutely, it’s a nice it’s a nice treat when it’s one of the result, is part of the result but for me it’s become part of the routine. Because when you do exercise the brain the dopamine hits as well, you know. It doesn’t last for the whole day. Of course not. But at least it’s a short amount of time where you from start to finish, when you when you’re done that’s the other part of ADHD you know, we can’t work on real long projects.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Nope. (laughs)

Kristin Sauter
No! We need to need to see the end very clearly, it needs to be there like almost immediately and sometimes it can be weeks or months or small but it depends on the project. But for me, a sport or doing a bit of an exercise every other day or so, really is ok. I’m seeing success. I’m seeing something, I’m starting something, I’m finishing because that’s also sometimes hard because if you start something you don’t finish. How many books have I got? As I’m seeing all the books. (laughter)

Sarah Noll Wilson
How many of these have I read the first three chapters? Lots of all of them. All of them.

Kristin Sauter
This is one of this, you know, it’s like, setting small goals. Before I never understood that thinking, because I’m a big picture thinker.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. (laughs)

Kristin Sauter
I like, this is awesome.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I want to think about it. I don’t want to do it, but I’m gonna think about it real good. It’s going to be a real good idea.

Kristin Sauter
Yeah. I mean, I mean, really, we we are really big picture thinkers, you know, we can create solutions for bigger stuff, you know, we don’t want to and then – but then we need a team that thinks about the steps because I’m getting bored just thinking about every little step along the way. But what I realized as well, as you know, if there is a bigger goal, a bigger project or something, it is so, so important to have those small steps, but then I need somebody to help me out with this because it’s just –

Sarah Noll Wilson
I need the external pressure.

Kristin Sauter
Exactly.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I have to have, whether it’s a coach, whether it’s a co-worker, whether it’s Nick, whatever it is, like, the only reason that book got done. The only reason I finished my book was because I had somebody who was like, you need to review these two chapters by next week. And I was like, I can do that. At the last minute, I will do that. (laughs)

Kristin Sauter
And that’s the thing. It’s last minute, you know, but it’s, but then the work is good. The work is good.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Right! Well, no, that’s exactly what I was gonna say. There’s, there’s a subtle, okay, so there’s a subtlety of like, there is procrastinating, right, like, and we you know, and especially especially with ADHD, procrastination can happen because, oh, shoot, we haven’t even talked about this – time blindness. And the irony is, I realize we’re over and this is really appropriate for this moment. But time blindness is a very real thing with neurodivergent brains, and which means we either are overestimating how long things will take. And so then we make it seem like it’s going to take forever, and then we delay it because we’re anxious about it, or we go, there’s no way I can start that right now. Or we underestimate how long things will take. Why many of your neurodivergent ADHD friends show up late is because I think there’s some part of our brain that’s like, I can get anywhere in 15 minutes, I’m gonna hit green lights, it’s all going to be – and one of the things that and this just happened yesterday in the team meeting, (laughter) Mary and Teresa are really good of like, you need to go the bathroom Sarah, because you’re gonna have a meeting in 12 minutes and like, and I’m still just like yapping yapping yapping and yesterday, Mary nudge me, like, go to the bathroom. Like she was like, girl go to the bathroom we gotta call at two. And sometimes I need that because yeah, that time blindness is very real. So then what happens is, you overestimate how long it’s gonna take, then that stresses you out. And then, right, you go into procrastination mode. That said, sometimes we’re incubating. And that’s different. An incubating is, I’m thinking about it a lot. I’m chewing on it. I’m going to be tweaking up to the last minute. And part of the reason why we can execute on that is because we’ve been incubating. So for me, the trick is, what I’ve worked to build, and I’m pretty, I feel like, I’ve got a pretty good sense of it now is, am I procrastinating because I don’t want to do this, or I’m afraid that I won’t be able to do it, or am I actually incubating and like knowing the difference.

Kristin Sauter
That’s a good one.

Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s important. And you know, the the one one more thing that I’ll just bring up is – I feel like this has been a new revelation for me in the last year. Because (chuckles) I saw a meme, Nick sent me a meme or so I don’t remember if you sent it or I saw I think I saw it and I shared it with him. And it was like, has somebody develop the social platform for ADHD people to swap hobbies and all of the stuff they buy for the hobbies that they want to do that they never continue? And we’re just like, keep swapping hobbies because the novelty wears off. Right? Like.

Kristin Sauter
It’s so funny.

Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s so true though. Because it because it’s like, if we’re gonna do something, we’re just gonna do it a little bit. We’re gonna buy every thing that goes along with it. There’s a reason I have nine accordians and not just one. (laughter) But the revelation I had is I’m trying to find moments to just like, accept and embrace that that’s my brain. So last summer I got really into just like drinks like I want to buy all these boba tea. You know, I’m gonna buy all this boba pearls or the bursting Bobo’s and all these syrup’s and all of these like different flavorings and I mean, I have basically like a stocked, you know, like barred coffee shop, and I joked with my therapist, and I said, “Here’s what I know about me, I love the idea of the hobby, the idea of the hobby and the planning of the hobby brings me as much joy sometimes as actually doing it. And I’m okay with that’s actually where my joy comes from.” So I said, so I’m going to, I said, I was laughing, I said, so this is going to be my three month hobby that I’m gonna just do an enjoy. And then I’ll figure out what my next three month hobby is after that, and being okay that like that, that’s actually, that’s fun and joyful to me. And just because I don’t stick with it doesn’t mean that I should dismiss it. That’s just part of my brain. And I remember her saying, that’s like, the healthiest like ADHD response I’ve ever had.

So, you know, and another one is, I would, again, because I know we have it, we’re just need to talk about we’ll do a panel discussion, because we’ve got lots of friends who could join us in this. It’s something I’ve had to accept is eye contact. Right? That’s really common for people who are neurodivergent, to struggle with eye contact, especially when they’re thinking because literally, it’s like, your brain has to go to the palace and like, because in part of what people don’t realize, at least for me, I need to remove the visual distraction of your face and just zone out so I can get into my brain. And and that’s such a neurotypical point of feedback, you need to give more feedback, or you need to have better eye contact, you need to have clear eye contact. And finally, I just realized, like, do you want do you want me to look at your eyes? Or do you want my best ideas? Because best ideas is going to be out left. And now that I understand it, right. Kristen? Oh, go ahead.

Kristin Sauter
Yeah, no, that’s something I think we probably need just another episode. (laughter)

Sarah Noll Wilson
We’ll do a panel.

Kristin Sauter
Yeah. But really, no, I love what you said, at the end was, you know, don’t judge me on the way I come across, or the things I do differently. Judge me for what I’m giving you, but also look behind the curtain, look behind you know, and see, okay, am I working in the right conditions? Do I have the right conditions to do the best I can, you know, and that doesn’t just belong to the workplace. It’s for everyone really, you know, to really understand, okay, what is this person actually going through? Are they in the best place to do the best they can? You know, are they juggling so many things? And with ADHD, you juggle a ton of things, you know, all the time, there’s never, there’s never a time off I feel like you know, unless you’re asleep.

Sarah Noll Wilson
That, that that is the statement right there. Like I think if you could sum up what ADHD feels like, it’s that there’s never a time off. Like there’s, which is why for me, and I’ve talked about this on the show, why the accordion is an act of self care for me, because it’s so complicated. In forces me to focus, and it lets my thoughts settle in a way that they don’t normally. We clearly need to have future conversations. And I think that it would be valuable. And I’ve got some some people I’m thinking about too who could join us and we could talk about what’s it like in the workplace? And what do we think about? As we wind down our time together, Ms. Kristin, but let’s, since this is the first time you’re on the show, hi, welcome. Um, let’s, let’s, let’s make sure that we have you answer our quintessential question at the end, which is, tell me a time, a conversation, when was a conversation you had with yourself or with someone else that was transformative for you?

Kristin Sauter
I think it really comes down to myself. After I had an incident with my son, which pulled me right into depression. And to really say, Kristin, you’re doing the best, where were you are, whatever, what happens and the things that are happening in your life, it was a very crazy time and all the changes. I really had to say it’s okay, because you’re doing the best you can with the conditions you have. And you know, just be proud of where you are. And it’s okay to have one situation where you didn’t feel like yourself. You didn’t feel like you’re doing your best because you’re just a human being as anyone else.

Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s such such a beautiful reminder, I think for all of us. Kristin for people who are listening who are curious like about working with you from a coaching perspective. What’s the kind of coaching work that you feel really drawn to?

Kristin Sauter
My focus right now and in general is I work with leaders in general but I like to work with anyone really, who is looking at themselves, have a bit of a self awareness that’s very important. You know, when you come to coaching, you want to be aware of, okay, what are the things that you would like to like to work on? And have an open mind, to the work and to yourself. But really, my focus is working with leaders and helping leaders understand, you know, what’s the impact they’re having on their teams, on individuals on their teams, on themselves, and how they show up every single day as the leaders and how they serve, you know, their teams and the organization actually, that they’re working for. It can be anything from emerging leaders, you know, helping them to figure out, you know, how do I become a leader? How do I want to be, how do I want to set myself up for success as I’m stepping into a leadership role? Of course, to be a senior leader who, you know, because as we say, sometimes the air becomes very thin at the top, you know, and because so many eyes are looking up to you, so many. And the pressure can be very high, the pressure can be very high, you know, and any topic really is related to you being a human in the workplace, you know. Something that I’m passionate about can be mental health, can be how to have a difficult conversation, you know, and how to help them, you know, shape a conversation, shape words, giving them different words, different perspectives on how to hold a difficult conversation. Sometimes it’s just giving them, giving a different perspective to help somebody to move forward, thinking about, Oh, I have to have this difficult conversation with my, you know, team member here. So really, anything related to leadership and being a leader, as we say is not just the role that you fill, it’s also how you show up every single day. And it doesn’t have to be a formal leadership role. So that’s why I like to work with anyone, formal or not formal intelligence leadership.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I highly recommend her. There’s a reason that she’s one of our main coaches on our team. And you know, and we are quickly transitioning many, many more clients, as I take a step back and you certainly if you’re interested in working with Kristin, you can connect with us at Sarah Noll Wilson dot com. You can reach out to her at Kristin @ Sarah Noll Wilson dot com. Kristin, thank you so much for coming on the show finally. God I don’t know how it took us this long. It’s long overdue. We’re gonna have to have you back again in less than 50 episodes.

Kristin Sauter
(laughs) I guess in good old ADHD fashion.

Sarah Noll Wilson
We talked about it a lot. We talked about it a whole lot. Then it would get out of sight out of mind. And we’re like, oh right, we need to make this happen. You know how much I adore you. And I’m so glad that we’re still on this journey together and pushing each other and pushing other people. So thank you, my love.

Kristin Sauter
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Our guest this week has been Kristin Sauter. And I just you know, she actually said something at the end that I’ve never heard her describe that the air gets thinner at the top when you’re a leader. And I know that that’s not related to ADHD, but that that one actually is just sticking with me here in a moment. But we want to hear from you. What resonates, what resonated, what comes up for you? What are you thinking about? Are you one of our fellow busy brain friends? So be sure to drop us a message at podcast @ Sarah Noll Wilson dot com. My DMs are always open. And if you want to support the show, please consider becoming a patron, a patron, you can go to patreon.com/conversations on conversations. Also, if you haven’t already, please be sure to rate review and subscribe to the show and your preferred podcast platform. This is incredibly helpful for us to continue to increase exposure and bring on great guests like Kristen and talk about important topics like we did today.

A final just big thank you to our team. Nick Wilson, our producer, Drew Noll, our sound editor, Becky Reinert, our transcriptionist, ksn marketing services, our marketing consultant and the rest of the SNoWCo. crew. We thank you. And a final thank you to our guests, Kristen. It was such a treat to finally have her on the show and so excited for you all to meet one of the most amazing humans that I get to spend time with, she’s one of my favorite people. This, my friends has been Conversations on Conversations. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, when we can change the conversations we have with ourselves and others we can change the world so be sure to rest, rehydrate and we will see you again next week.