Join Sarah Noll Wilson and guest Alexis Haselberger as they reflect on what it really means to be productive, and Alexis shares her fresh approach to time management.
Alexis Haselberger is a time management and productivity coach who helps people do more and stress less through coaching, workshops and online courses. Her pragmatic, yet fun, approach helps people easily integrate practical, realistic strategies into their lives so that they can do more of what they want and less of what they don’t. Alexis has taught thousands of individuals to take control of their time and her clients include Google, Lyft, Workday, Capital One, Upwork and more.
TRANSCRIPT
Sarah Noll Wilson
Hello and welcome to this week’s episode of Conversations on Conversations where each week we explore a topic to help us have more powerful conversations with ourselves and each other. I’m your host, Sarah Noll Wilson. And joining me today is a friend that we met long time ago. This is a long overdue conversation about a very important topic, Time Management. So listen up, folks. But I’m so excited for Alexis Haselberger to be joining me today. So let me tell you a little bit about Alexis. And then we’ll jump into learning more about her, how we met and have her solve all of my problems with time management. (laughs) All right, Alexis Haselberger is a time management and productivity coach who helps people, who helps people do more and stress less through coaching, workshops and online courses. Her pragmatic yet fun approach helps people easily integrate practical, realistic strategies into their lives so that they can do more of what they want and less of what they don’t. Alexis has taught thousands of individuals to take control of their time. And her clients include Google, Lyft, Workday, Capital One, Upwork, and many more. Welcome to the show. Finally!
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah, I’m so excited to be here. I’ve been looking forward to it all week.
Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s, ya know, me too. Okay. So what else should we know about you?
Alexis Haselberger
Okay, let’s see, what should we know about me? I have two teenage boys. I live in a house of all boys. My recent like ADHD hyper fixation is pottery. So I’ve been getting really into pottery and going to the pottery studio like 10 hours a week.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Wait! How long does that ADHD hyper fixation usually last for you?
Alexis Haselberger
You know, it just depends, like some of the, you know, like, I’ve been like knitting and crocheting for 20 years. And like, that’s a really long fixation, but it goes in waves. Like, I would say, it depends on the activity, but definitely several months at least, and I’m hoping this one sticks.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, sure. No, I don’t mean to interrupt you, but I just. Okay, continue on. What else should we know? You’ve taken up pottery.
Alexis Haselberger
Let’s see, what should we know? I’ve taken up pottery. I, the reason that I do what I do is very different, probably, than a lot of like productivity and time management people out there. I think that, you know, when I hear productivity coach, I kind of cringe inside because I don’t like that title. But it’s what people Google. And so it’s what I call myself, right? So it’s what gets people to me in the best possible way. But the reason I don’t love that as a title is because people assume that it’s my goal to like, help them eke productivity out of every moment of every day. And then I’m going to be one of those people that’s like, “Come on, just get up earlier. Like get up like before your kids get up!” You know, like, whatever all of that stuff.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Get up at four and read three chapters, and soak in an ice tub, and then work out for 50 minutes and meditate, and then run a business!
Alexis Haselberger
Right! You’ve had, you’ve already had your first day by 9am! You know, like, that is just so absolutely not me. Like, my goal is to help people use their time in a way that feels really aligned with their goals and their values, whatever those may be. Like, if someone showed up on my doorstep and said, I would like you to help me figure out a way that I can like binge watch Netflix 10 hours a day. I’d be like, Okay, let’s do it. Let’s try, let’s figure it out. And I really like having a ton of time to myself and to my family. And that’s a huge reason of why I really like things like efficiency, (laughs) is because I really want to make sure that I have more time for all the other parts of my life. Like even though I love work, I love my work. I love what I do. I love my clients. And yet, if you ask me in any given moment, what I’d like to be doing, it’s probably reading a book or being at the pottery studio or cooking or hanging out with my family. Okay, that was a lot of things.
Sarah Noll Wilson
No, I feel gosh, I feel all of that. You started to allude to this, but I am curious, what started you on this path? You mentioned earlier, your ADHD. And most people I know, myself included, probably one of the number one development goals they get in the workplace is we got to learn project management and time management (laughs) and I’m like, I’m going to be working on that my whole life. What was your journey into doing this – the type of work you do?
Alexis Haselberger
So, I will say I was very late diagnosed. (laughs) So like when I was over 40 was when I was diagnosed. So –
Sarah Noll Wilson
Same. Same. No, late thirties. No keep going. I’m sorry to interrupt. I’ll focus.
Alexis Haselberger
No, no, no problem. Um, so I, I will say that, like, I was always a kid who was like trying to – like I love loopholes, right. So I was like, always trying to figure out how could I like get straight A’s, but also go to class as little as possible, right? Like, how can I achieve those things? And I was, you know, so I was always trying to think about like, how can I do really good work but do it in the least amount of time and least amount of effort because I, even as a kid I was like, yeah, I want to do all the – I want to read all the books, I want to do all those things like, I don’t want to do the stuff I have to do. And so I, you know, I did that in college, (laughs) I did that in school. I think I learned really early, like, oh, don’t do stuff you’re bad at which is not a good advice. But it’s like, oh, I took like one college course that was like biology, and I had to like, memorize things. It was also at 8am. And it was like the worst grade I ever got in my life. And I was like, Oh, I’m not going to take classes like that anymore. I’m going to take classes where I can talk, and where I can write papers, because like, those are the things that I excel at, right? I don’t think any of this was conscious at the time. Then I started working in startups right out of school, because I don’t know, I got a job at one, I wasn’t really thinking about it too much. And I moved to the Bay Area, and there’s lots of startups around. And I started doing kind of these roles like, Director, I think I started I was like Office Manager, then I was like Director of Operations, then it would be like Chief of Staff, Director of Operations and HR, these types of things. And I was basically handling everything that wasn’t sales or engineering.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Sure.
Alexis Haselberger
Right? And so I started to realize, like, I can’t keep track of this in my head, that’s impossible for me. Like it does not work. I mean, even in college, I was like literally writing things on the back of my hand with a ballpoint pen. And then trying not to like, when I showered trying not to erase that part, you know, because I was like, I’m not gonna get my taxes done, if I don’t see that it’s written on my hand 100% of the time, right. And so, you know, when I, when it came to the work world, I just started trying to figure out, like, what are the things that are going to make me succeed? Like, what strategies can I use? How can I like, keep track of things without using my brain, like without using my memory, because that’s not possible for me. And it was really always important for me to have a lot of time to myself. And so I started to just, I don’t know, create this stuff in my life. And then slowly, people started coming to me for this stuff, right? Saying like, Oh, hey, you’re using this task system that you made. Do you think you could like implement something for the whole company like that? Or, you know, I remember the the spark that led me to start my business was when one of the CEOs that I worked for was like, “So you know, all this, like productivity stuff you do? Could you just like, make a workshop and do that for the whole team?” And I was like, oh, yeah, that sounds super fun. I would love to do that. I’m gonna stop talking for a minute, because I feel like I’ve been monologuing at you.
Sarah Noll Wilson
You haven’t. I’m totally –
Alexis Haselberger
Okay, great. Then I won’t. I can keep going if you want. (laughter)
Sarah Noll Wilson
I have questions.
Alexis Haselberger
Okay. Yeah, ask your questions.
Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s – what I have to applaud you for being able to, even without diagnosis, figure out the mechanisms. And I’m curious to get your thoughts on this. When I was diagnosed, which I was late diagnosis as well. A little bit earlier, but not that much. So well. I was gonna say, oh, yeah, me too. And I was like, no, it was five or six years, six years ago. And I’m 42. But anyway, one of the things that was such an aha, for me, was realizing that so many of the tools and techniques that were out there, around time management, around productivity, around project management, were largely designed for a neurotypical brain. And, and the practice that my therapist and I worked on, and I continue to try to figure out, quite frankly, is what’s the Sarah manual?
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Because I often felt like an absolute failure. I often had the feeling of, I know I’m smart. I might be, and I’ll be honest, I’m struggling with it right now. As the company is growing, as we have more tasks, as, you know, I’m trying to manage longer term clients, it’s just the balls are different now. That I have to constantly be working through this sense of shame of because I can’t stay focused. I can’t, I’m not, I struggle to manage my time. And I’m just curious, you know, how often do you encounter other people, whether they’re neurodivergent or not, who feel like, oh, I just can’t, because I can’t figure this out, then I must be a failure, or I must not be good enough.
Alexis Haselberger
All. The. Time. Like, literally, almost everyone who comes to me is at kind of a breaking point. Or, you know, I hesitate to say like a desperation point. But it does feel like that sometimes. It’s like, I have tried all the things and nothing has worked for me. And like what do I do now? And also, will what you’re gonna do is like, what you’re going to help me with, is that going to work for me? Because I’ve tried all this other stuff, and it didn’t work for me. And I think that one thing that I do when I work with people and I’ve done this from the very beginning, I started my business before I was diagnosed and so this is kind of you know, it’s, it all makes sense in retrospect, right, but at the time, it isn’t doing what you’re doing. But I started at every engagement with let’s learn more about who you are exactly as you are, because there are a lot of different traits, tendencies, scales, etc, that have something to do with how we get things done, or rather how we don’t get things done. And that, it’s not like we want to put people in a box. But if you can kind of identify all of these data points, then it’s actually easier for me to be able to say, oh, like, because we know this about you. I can like pretty much guess that like, this probably won’t work. But maybe we could try this other thing over here. Right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s – sorry, I have to pause for a second. I don’t know that I have I’ve ever heard, read, observed or had somebody articulate what you just articulated, which is the impact of not just looking at what works. But getting really clear about and how do you like not get things done? What are the things that overwhelm you, that don’t work for you? What are those projects or tasks or structures? And that’s a, it’s a really interesting. That’s really interesting. Continue on.
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I think I mean, something I say all the time, is that, like, knowing what we’re doing, and knowing what we’re not doing are equally important, right? Because, one, we’re not going to do all the things like you, me and everyone else, like we’re all gonna die someday with a long list of things we did not do. That’s okay. That’s like part of life. Right? We, that’s why we prioritize, or that’s why we tried to prioritize. But yeah, I mean, I think that that was always like, from the very first client I had, the first session is always like, okay, let’s learn more about you. Let’s talk about what’s worked. Let’s talk about what hasn’t, let’s talk about where you’re getting blocked. Because everyone’s brain is different, right? And I don’t think I was thinking about it at the time I started this business, from a neurodivergent or not perspective, but just from kind of what I had found maybe in myself and other people. And you know, what I kind of seen along the way, when, you know, I was helping a lot of people before I actually became a coach with this sort of stuff. And then I think that also, you know, you mentioned shame and shame is something that a lot of people who I work with come in with, right, just so many. And I think that I was like, blessed in some way, with the ability, like, I almost never think about what somebody else is thinking about me. It’s also a curse in some ways, right? Because like, there are times where that’s incredibly important. But I think that like, somehow I just avoided that shame cycle. And yet, I could see it in other people. And so there was this bridge to like, hey, you don’t have to feel that way about this stuff. Right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah.
Alexis Haselberger
That’s not your fate.
Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s, it’s, I hear that, and it’s and it’s one of the things that I have struggled with, and I’m much better at it now, but it’s still something I have to be conscious about, is the fact that, at least in American culture, because we have listeners all over the globe, but in American culture in particular, there is such this high value put on hustling, put on, again, we were, you know, joking about it, wake up at 4am. And do all of this! And here’s how you maximize your day. And here’s how you get the most out of life. And here’s how you crush your competitors. And here’s – and, and even when that isn’t the lifestyle I want, it has taken me years to untangle. And I still have moments where I have to pull those weeds that pop up a little bit from you know, from whether it’s a shame, or whether it’s just a frustration, sometimes it’s just a frustration. But you know, it’s a – I have two tasks that have been on my plate for four months, and they just have to get done. And I am so blocked by them. And that can be so easy for people to go, well just do them. Like, Oh, if it was that easy, I would, I would totally do it. So sometimes it’s just a frustration, like not even a shame from what other people feel. But also just I’m frustrated with myself sometimes. And I can’t figure out how to get my brain to do or how to create the systems for my brain to do what I need to do.
Alexis Haselberger
Right. I think, I think that’s totally right. And it’s kind of like figuring out, like, what are the blockers to something like that, so I won’t, I’m not gonna say that I know exactly why you’re not getting those two tasks done, right. But what I might say is like, Hmm, maybe what we could do is like, create some low hanging fruit there. So like, could we take one of those tasks and could we say like, what is the smallest first step that you can take to move this thing forward? And sometimes that means the first step is literally like, open my laptop. Right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Sure.
Alexis Haselberger
The second step might be like, I don’t know what these tasks are, but like, open the document, name the document and that feels –
Sarah Noll Wilson
That makes me so uncomfortable just thinking about some of that. I’m like (stutters), I’m having a reaction. (laughs)
Alexis Haselberger
Anxiety right? Oh, Um, but you don’t have to, I think what it is is you don’t have to know all those steps at once. Right? But what we’re what we’re sometimes trying to do, and maybe this isn’t a strategy that works for you, who knows, right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
No, no. Send me your invoice when we are done.
Alexis Haselberger
(laughs) But But, um, but one of the things that often helps people with that type of thing is that when something is like, big, boring, amorphous, whatever, like all these things, why we don’t, why we’re procrastinating and we don’t want to do something, that we have to kind of engage in some mental trickery, right? We have to say like, Okay, I call it for myself, I call it idiot proofing my task list from myself, where I’m like, okay, I’m gonna make this next step so easy. I can’t convince myself not to do it. Like, I can’t literally have an argument with myself about why I’m not going to open my laptop. Right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Well, when you – okay, so when you – I appreciate hearing that how to start and and, and obviously, part of the goal of this show is to give people questions of reflections, maybe reframes. What are, in addition to maybe the shame, frustration, what are other common patterns of thinking or beliefs or limiting beliefs do you see in the clients that you support around this idea of managing their time differently?
Alexis Haselberger
Okay, so the first huge one is, somehow there’s the way I just don’t know it yet. But there’s a way for me to Tetris, everything together so that I can do everything I want to all at the same time right now. Right, like absolute number one biggest thing, people are so resistant to the idea that they might just actually be overcapacity. Right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Oh yeah. (exhales)
Alexis Haselberger
Like, it’s so hard, it’s hard for me too. Like, it is so hard for me to realize that, like, you know, what, I have like 500 things on this list of like, things that I think would be great to do for my business that I’m probably never going to do, because I have to also weigh how much time do I want to spend working?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.
Alexis Haselberger
I think that’s like, number one, almost everyone I work with has this belief that somehow, without taking anything out of the picture, without removing any obligations, or without delaying anything, they’re somehow going to be able to, like magically fix everything and work, make it all work.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And some of that is so driven internally. And again, some of it is the messaging you get. And one of the things that I and I will say that I’m working on, because I don’t feel consciously unconsciously competent with it yet. Is exactly around that idea of over capacity. And, and not just over capacity, but being able to name and value and honor the other things I want to spend time on, or to name honor and value the things I need to spend time on. It’s so ease, and what I mean by that is, similar to you, right, we travel a lot. And in my brain, I always think I’m going to just be in a hotel room, or I’m going to be on this flight for five hours, and I’m gonna get so much done. And not realizing that travel is exhausting. Sometimes I can get stuff done, other times I’m anxious because the planes a little bumpy and then – you know what I’m saying? Like, I underestimate the other things I want to do, or that I actually need to do. Yeah, keep going.
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah. I mean, I think this is so true. I think like, you know, one thing that I teach people is around this kinds of like, how, what do we say? How do we think about what we’re going to say yes to and what we’re going to say no to? And this doesn’t mean necessarily with other people. I mean, it certainly can mean that. But it also can mean with ourselves, right? I love this example of being on a plane because like I have been in that same position before, obviously. And I have learned from experience that, that I, I can’t work, I usually can work on the plane ride to someplace, but I can never work on the plane back. Right? Never. Because at that point, I’m spent, like I’ve talked, I’ve spoken to a lot of people, all I want to do is sit there and read a book or listen to a podcast or watch a movie or whatever it is. But I’ve learned – and also, I can’t do a lot of things on the on the ride there. But one thing I can do is write. So like I’ve learned I will like set myself up. And this is like trial and error over many, many flights. Right? And so I’ve learned that like I’ll set myself up – and I also like try not to give myself like a hard limit. I usually am like here’s all the blog posts that I want to write. And then I’m like, I am going to write furiously until I feel like I’m don’t want to write anymore. Right? And like maybe that’s half of the plane ride. Maybe that’s an hour, maybe it’s until we land, right? But I think that just like it’s kind of experimentation with what we can do, what we might want to do, etc. I think it becomes really important because I think of it as like iteration, right? And a lot of times, you know, another belief that people have is like, there’s this end state where everything’s going to be perfect.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.
Alexis Haselberger
And, and that’s also not true. You know, like, I think I’m pretty good at this stuff. Like, I help other people with it. I’ve been practicing for a really long time. But that’s why it’s called practice, right? Because, like, it’s not, you’re not you’re not right all the time. And, and that, like, things will evolve and will change. And that that’s, that’s okay, right? I mean, lots of times, people are like, oh, I scheduled this thing for this day. And now I feel like a failure because I didn’t do this thing on this day that I told myself, I was gonna do it. And it’s like, well, okay, but why did you make that – let’s, let’s think about why. Because there are good reasons to have not done that thing.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Sure.
Alexis Haselberger
And there are not as good reasons to have not done that thing. Right? Like, if your kid was sick, and you needed to attend to your kid, or you were feeling not well, or I don’t know, like your house flooded, or like, I don’t you know, who knows, right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
And whatever that is to you.
Alexis Haselberger
Whatever, whatever that is, right? Like, who knows what those things are for any specific person. But like, if you have to move something, because something else more important came up. That’s actually the right move, right? But we think of it as like, hey, we made a plan. And if we don’t follow that plan to the tee, then we have failed with the whole thing. And like, Why should we bother planning at all? And I really think it’s a lot more flexible than that, that like, hey, this is the plan, given the information we have right now. But guaranteed, information will change. And it would actually be silly of us to follow a plan that we made, where we didn’t have this new information. Right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
I’m taking notes, so, just so you know.
Alexis Haselberger
Okay. (laughs) Um, I think that another big thing that people come in with around, like, their ability or inability to change their behaviors around time and use their time differently, has to do with other people, and with conversations they think they cannot have, right? I mean, a really common one is like, your meeting schedule looks like, you know, a brick wall of meetings all week long. You’re not able to get any work done during the day, because you’re in eight hours of meetings a day. And then, you know, we talk about, okay, like which of these meetings like what can we do here, right? And people will say things like, and I’m not blaming them at all, like, I have felt like this before, too. But people will say things like, well, there’s like five people in that meeting, I can’t move that meeting, right. And, you know, maybe you can’t move that meeting. But you might be able to say, Hey, I’m wondering if we could experiment with moving this meeting to this time, or to once a week instead of three times a week or whatever. And we’ll come back and a few months or a few weeks, and we’ll see. Did it work? Did it not work? And we can always go back to what it was. But you’d be surprised about how many people are really open to those types of conversations, when we phrase it in the form of an experiment, instead of like, people are worried and rightfully so that they’re going to come across as selfish.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s, well, that’s music to my ears, that whole embrace experimentation, you know, embracing experimentation mindset is such a core practice of ours, when we think about creating adaptive cultures and navigating change. And you know, and I can’t help it, think about that. There’s so many things. A language we use is, is it a ruler? Or is it a possibility? Is it a rule that you have to meet this time? Or is it a possibility? And it’s one of the things that we’ve really tried to push ourselves as a company, because part of my mission isn’t just the work we do. But how do we build a company for humans? How do we, how do we do it differently? How do we create the space where people can say, you know, what meetings before 10 are just really tough for me, unless it’s critical, unless that’s the only time a client can meet or whatever the case is? And we’ve done a lot of let’s experiment, and let’s try this. And let’s, and let’s do that.
Alexis Haselberger
I’m a huge believer in experimentation as well, because I think that, one, like people are resistant to change. That’s true. But usually people don’t want to be or like, even if they’re resistant to experimentation, they’re not willing to say that they’re, they’re resistant to experimentation, right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Because when they’re resistant to whatever changes, because yes, there’s a loss, right?
Alexis Haselberger
They’re scared, right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Or a perceived loss. Yeah. Like, I don’t know how this is gonna benefit me. So no, lets not.
Alexis Haselberger
Right.
Sarah Noll Wilson
You know, what, one of the things that was coming up, as you’re talking about, this is the plan we have right now. And adapting and adjusting. That’s something that we work really hard with. And it’s interesting, because when we hear from folks, if something comes up, right, my kid is sick. I’m so sorry. And it’s over apologetic. Life happens. Go, like this is your priority. I’m curious to hear how do you respond when you’re working with leaders, teams, organizations, and they say, We’re just moving so fast. We’re just moving. We’re moving so fast, there’s no possible way we can prioritize this. That is something that we hear over and over from organizations, almost as an excuse to avoid doing the work they say is important to them. You tell us that you want better managers and you’re telling us you’re just simply too busy to be able to invest it. So I’m curious, how do you navigate those conversations? Because I’m sure you hear those all the time?,
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah. I mean, I think about that as like moving too fast. That’s a choice, right? And that’s a priority. Like, it’s, it’s not that you can’t move fast and also make inroads in other areas. But you do have to say, like, what, if you’re thinking along the lines of, hey, we’re moving so fast, we can’t prioritize that, then I don’t think can’t is the appropriate word. Right.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Right.
Alexis Haselberger
I think it’s that, hey, we’re moving too fast. We’re moving really fast. And we are not prioritizing this at this moment. And just to recognize that that in itself is a trade off, right? You could move maybe maybe the answer is actually that like, yeah, we’re moving really fast, whatever that means. And we, were going to devote a certain amount of time to this other area, right? Or maybe that’s, you know, what, we are launching our new product right now. And it actually, like, we can’t move our focus off of that. And so yes, it’s important for us to, you know, get better at time management, or to get better at, you know, having an adaptive culture or whatever it may be. But we’re gonna say, you know, we’re gonna hold on that until next quarter. And we’re gonna prioritize that next quarter, because I think it’s the can’t that gets you.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah.
Alexis Haselberger
It’s not true that you can’t, –
Sarah Noll Wilson
You’re choosing not to.
Alexis Haselberger
You’re choosing not to. But I will also say that the larger the organization, the harder it is for people who are not near the top of that organization to kind of make these unilateral changes and decisions, because it often requires so much buy in from people at all levels, right.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, I mean, 100%, because I always say when it’s smaller, you can just move the ship faster.
Alexis Haselberger
Right.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And, yeah, it’s just interesting. The something, and we’ve always heard it, but there’s just been something about it lately that has hit our ears differently. Knowing that your goal and your focus when working with individuals and teams is to get really clear about where you want to spend, spend your time and where you don’t. How do you navigate, explore, examine the privilege of having that choice that other people might not? Whether it’s because of economic conditions, whether it’s because of the situation you’re in, it’s just something that was coming up for me. Yeah. So yeah, I’m curious to get your thoughts on that.
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah, that’s a really good question, because this is something that I struggled with as well. And I will say that, like, the vast majority of people that reached out to me, are people who are like mid level professionals that have some amount of autonomy in their schedules, that have the funds to be able to hire a coach. And there’s also a part of me that like, really struggles with the fact that like, time management, in and of itself is like kind of a white supremacy concept. Right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. Like productivity at all costs, it is.
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like all of this stuff. And so, like, I have grappled with this a lot. Because on one level, I wish I could just like blow the system up. And we don’t have to deal with this. And on the other level, like people are coming to me because they’re in pain, because they work within the system. And so I don’t have like a, hey, here’s how I’ve solved this, this answer, right, like at all. But that is something that I think about a lot. And, and it’s also something that I try to address in terms of, you know, one, I have products at all different price points, so that like people can access, like free free is one of the price points, right, like I give a lot of free content just like you do, right? I think another thing is that I try to, you know, say things like look in different roles, you’re going to have different levels of autonomy, right? I’m not going to be here and say like, Hey, you know what, that what you should do is you should batch process your email twice a day, right? That doesn’t make sense, it makes sense for some people. But it doesn’t make sense for a lot of people. Like if you’re a customer service representative, that makes no sense, right? Because your job is email. Doesn’t make any sense at all. Or maybe you work in PR, and you have emergencies that come up or you know, so I often try to I mean, when I’m working with people one on one, I’m really trying to understand their situation, first, and when I’m speaking more broadly to people that I may not know deeply or know me, I do try to hedge and I mean even things around, like, I talked a lot about how do we say no, right? And I’m always talking about like, Hey, if you are not a white man in America, this advice, like you take this with a grain of salt, because it is going to be different for you as much as I hate to say that, right.
Sarah Noll Wilson
But yeah, the risk is different. Right?
Alexis Haselberger
The risk different.
Sarah Noll Wilson
The risk in speaking up, the risk and advocating, the expectations of, of needing to be, you know, twice as smart and three times whatever the you know, but like the expectation on particularly our colleagues of color, particularly black women, let’s just name it, to be exceptional to just be able to, like have their foot in the door is, it is an important part of the conversation, and I appreciate you naming it for what it is. We work in a very white supremacist culture where it’s hustle at all costs, right? We leave emotions at the door, we, and and I’m glad that we’re having more conversations, we’re seeing more companies, and it’s challenging, and we experienced this in our own company, in our own organization, when you’re in the system where that’s just the norm. And how do you do it? How do you try to do it differently? It’s one of the things quite frankly, that I’ve struggled with, with anything that I’ve read around time management, productivity, is it’s often coming from an incredibly privileged position. It is somebody who, let’s be real, largely has a wife at home, who’s taking care of the kids, and they’re navigating all that emotional labor, or, you know, they built a company, and then they sold it. And now like, to your point, they have the financial freedom, or they have the autonomy in their, their position that allows them that flexibility. And and I’ve always struggled with that, and also just struggling with the idea of is that what we want? Is that what we want our life to be? Is that, is my goal in life to work as much as I can? No.
Alexis Haselberger
No.I mean, that’s not my goal, right? And that’s where I come back. Like I agree with you. This is why I find it really important to kind of like, separate myself from that worldview, because that is not the lens through which I see this. And I agree with you so much. I mean, I was just listening to like some NPR podcast the other day, and it was interviewing that like, Blue Zones person about like, the healthiest places. And he was like talking about, I had the exact same thoughts you’re just saying, because he was talking about like, well, oh, what should people do? Oh, well, they should just, you know, if you she said, Well, what if you don’t have a job where you can, like, you know, arrange your schedule like this. And he goes, Well, you should get a new job. And I was just like, oh my god that is so like, just, it’s privileged. It’s clueless. And it’s not the reality for like a huge swath of people. I mean, same things. He’s like, Yeah, I swim every day too. I moved to Miami Beach, and I swim every – I mean, I’m sure he’s a great guy. But like, yeah, moved to Miami Beach, and I swim every day. And I, you know, I get my exercise in because I come out of my front door, and then I swim to my coffee place, and then blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, that is fantastic for him. And so many people, the vast majority of people cannot do that, right? I mean, I even feel the same way about like, deep work, right? It’s like, fantastic for somebody who’s an academic and has like, can sit and like research all things all day, but doesn’t work for a lot of other people. Right? Like, there’s, and this is, I think, why it’s a little bit, you know, a little bit a lot a bit, I don’t know, like toxic some of this stuff is because we, these are the people, these are the biggest voices we hear. And so it’s so easy to think like, well, they’re all doing it, like, but then you look and you’re like, do I see myself in those people? No! And, like, and I am a privileged person.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Same.
Alexis Haselberger
Like, you know, I am a white woman living in America, right? And I, even I don’t see myself and these people. So I think yeah, I think it’s a problem.
Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s a – yeah. And then, and then when that’s the pervasive belief, and you’re in a position of power and authority, and you know, you, you use the word autonomy a number of times. And that’s something that is so easy to take for granted. When you’re in a situation where you have the authority, where you have the autonomy to forget what it feels like when you don’t have the autonomy. When you don’t have the freedom. This is something I’ve talked about on previous episodes I’ve written about it. I’m so passionate as we build our company and grow, that we don’t have a culture that’s flexible, but we have a culture of freedom. You own your time, you own your task, we’re not even tracking hours, right? The work just needs to get done. And we’re even pushing against that. It’s just like well, how, how much less could we work? We do really quality work, and we’re getting time with our family. And we’re getting time with, you know, ourselves, our kids, our friends, our health, whatever, whatever that looks like that – I do that is something that I see folks in positions of power, whether it’s formal or informal, forgetting about, losing sight of, or maybe even just wanting to ignore entirely, because, you know, well, I don’t want to be on phone. So we’re just, I don’t understand why they’re complaining about being in the call center. Like, really, I could tell you why they’re complaining, you know, like, why they don’t want to be tied to the phones, eight hours.
Alexis Haselberger
And I think something that comes up for me a lot around this, when I’m working with leaders, especially is things about just like it is, I think it is a forgetting, I don’t think it’s mal intent most of the time. But I think that, you know, where I see this often is like, hey, you know, the boss is sending emails at 11pm. And they’re saying, Hey, you don’t have to check your emails at 11pm. But the fact that they’re sending emails at 11pm, and the fact that people have this expectation, even if it’s not real, that they need to be like, on all the time, like, the boss is saying, well, they don’t have to if they don’t want to, they had their autonomous they can they can not do that. And my response is like, No, you schedule send, like, yeah, just don’t get, don’t put them in a position where they are going to even have that have to have that argument with themselves about it. Right? Like there are, we live in a time of great technology, which is terrible in many ways for many of us, and is also amazing in many ways. But we forget that like we can use – there are features that allow us to be more respectful of other people and their time.
Sarah Noll Wilson
That is, yeah, that is something that I struggle with. And the one thing I will say, though, that we talk about a lot as a team is we try to celebrate, when we go you know what, I’m sending you this now, because I took a long nap this afternoon. And that’s not just me, but it’s the team. Or, oh, I had to run to Target so I’m just hopping on real quick. But I mean, that’s something that I can, that I need to continue working on. You’ve been doing this work for quite a while. And something we’ve talked about on the show, in many other conversations that I want to get your perspective on, is the shift that many people are experiencing related to their time, related to how they want to spend it, related to the role that they want work in their lives, decentralizing that more. And that is causing a lot of heartache for people who have identified their sense of value through their work, or they’re in control. And, you know, they’re in the positions of authority. So when – I guess I’m just curious, what are you seeing and hearing from people? Because I know that we’re seeing a huge number of people who are basically saying, I don’t, I don’t want to kill myself working like my parents did. My dad had a heart attack at 55. Why would I want that? I don’t want to work 70 hours, I don’t even want to work 40 hours a week. So I’m curious what what you’ve been experiencing and observing?
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah, so I think that a lot of, I mean, a lot of people that I work with, and not everyone, right? I will say there was one woman I worked with who came to me and she said, Look, I work 80 hour weeks, I really like it. All I want to do is become more efficient during those 80 hours. And I was like, Okay, great. Well do it. Right? But that she’s like, what, she’s the one that I remember, right? Most people are like, Hey, and they come in with these goals that, that they feel big to them, but feel like small to me in some ways, right? Like, I remember one guy came in and he was like, I just want to have one weekend day a week where I don’t work. Just one day, just one weekend day, right? And I’m like, I think we could we could maybe even get you to two, right? Like, maybe we could, maybe we could get it so that you’re not working at what one am. Right? And so I think that that’s, I think it’s really common when people come to me, it’s not because they want to do more work, right? They’re not, I mean, except with the exception of that one woman right? Like most people are not coming because hey, like, I want to just be more efficient at my work. Most people are like, it feels like I am not living the life that I wanted to live. And yet, like on the surface, if people were to look at me, they would think like, Oh, I got the big job. I’m successful. I got a family. I got a vacation home. I got you know, not everyone as a vacation home, but like, you know what I mean? Like they have all those out exterior markers of success. And they’re often people who I call, I say they’re like, they’ve gotten there by brute force.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.
Alexis Haselberger
And now they’re like, Okay, like, how do I kind of maintain this, but also not, like do it at the expense of my health, of my family? Like, Hey, I’d love to see my kid some time or I want to hang out with my dog more or like whatever. And so I think that almost everybody I work with is coming And like that. And I think that I also see that in the broader culture, I think one thing that made me real annoyed was the whole, like, quiet quitting thing, because I’m like, you know what, I want quiet quitters. Like I want them, I love them, I love them! Right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
I mean, I was talking to a client once, and people just don’t want to work. And I was like, and? Do you want to work as much as you do? I own my own company. I love who I get to work with, how I get to work, the work we get to do. And we’re in a privileged position to be able to say yes to work and no to work. I don’t want to work as much. And I love it. And I love thinking about it. And I know, I’m like, if I feel this way, and I have total control and authority, and so much privilege. Imagine what the single mother who’s taking care of their sick parent, who right, has sacrificed everything might be feeling, you know, it’s just –
Alexis Haselberger
Right. Yeah. No, totally.
Sarah Noll Wilson
To be clear, like, I want people’s needs taken care of. But yeah, continue on.
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah, no, I think I think you’re exactly right. Like, I think that’s a fantastic question to have posed back. Because I think the same thing, I’m like, you know, what quiet quitting is? It’s just doing your job.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.
Alexis Haselberger
It’s just doing your job.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Meeting expectation.
Alexis Haselberger
It’s just meeting expectations. And like, that is 100%. Like, I want people who want to do that stuff that they’re, you know, like, when I hear about like, quiet quitting, it’s not people doing the bare minimum. Like, that’s, it’s not that, right. That’s not what that is. Because these are people who like want to keep their jobs and they want to keep working. These are people who are like, You know what, I’m just not gonna log in after seven. Right? That’s like, to me the fact that this there was such an outcry about like, Oh, my god, these people are like, quiet quitting! I’m like, these people are just trying to have a semblance of work/life harmony, right? .
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. And again, and again, bringing in that, the role of privilege. Some people are able to meet expectations, and they meet expectations, other people, depending on their identity, can meet expectations, and it won’t be viewed as that.
Alexis Haselberger
Totally.
Sarah Noll Wilson
One of the things I know that I I struggle with, still, is, even though I know what is important to me. And I’m getting clear about how I want to spend my time. I still struggle with the patterns and and the beliefs. (laughs) I can’t tell you how many times I’ve hopped on a call with my coach Stephanie, she’s like, should you be? Should we even be here? Today? Should I be? Should you look like you had a rough night? Like I did, but I kind of want to be with – and sometimes I’m like, No, you’re right. I’m just pushing through it. Or recently, I was snowed in Dubuque with my family. And I was kind of trying to figure out like, should I come back? Should I not? It’s not that it’s snowing, but it’s negative 15 degrees. And Nick was so beautiful. And like, how many opportunities do you get where you don’t have events to just spend time with your parents? And I felt guilty at times, I felt. So how do we – what are the questions or the reframing as people are starting to reclaim when they can, when they have the resources, privilege, right, all of that, for those who are in that situation, to reclaim and or support other people reclaiming, because I feel as if that’s part of my job and building my company. How do we, how do we talk to ourselves in those moments when we’re clear about what we want, but even when we do it, oh, it really pushes against that, quite frankly, that white supremacy like need for hustle and productivity?
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah. So I think that one of the things that is really helpful is to determine what your own definition of productivity means. To kind of accept the fact that like, there is this wider culture definition of productivity, which is like do all the things more, better, faster, right? But to really think about, like, what is your definition of that? For me, my definition of productivity is doing what I intended to do.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Oh, I love that.
Alexis Haselberger
And so like, for me, that means like, if what my intention is, is to sit in the hammock in the backyard with a beer and a book, then that’s productive, because that’s what I intended to do. And the reason that I have that definition is because what often happens, like usually when we’re feeling bad about how we spent our time, it’s because it like it felt like time happened to us. Right? It felt like we weren’t intentional about that. And so I think that comes up in a lot of different ways. I will get back to answering your exact question in a minute.
Sarah Noll Wilson
That’s really powerful too. So thank you.
Alexis Haselberger
But yeah, I think about this from a perspective of like, okay, so, here’s my intention. And like if I intend to binge watch, like, I’m currently binge watching a British pottery reality TV show, (laughter) but if I am tend to, from 2015. If I intend to like, sit down and like watch a few episodes of that. That feels good to me. But if I find myself just like, accidentally Yeah, watching a bunch of episodes, I don’t feel good about it right? If I show up to work, and I kind of have a rough plan, and I’m working from the plan, and things come up, and I’m like, you know what that actually needs to push this thing and, and that one doesn’t, you know that I can push back on that thing, or, you know, we’re really thinking about it intentionally. I feel good no matter what happened. If I show up to my workday, and I kind of have a plan, I have a plan, maybe I have a plan. It’s a well thought out plan. And instead, I don’t look at it, and I just start answering emails, and then all of a sudden, it’s 6pm. And nothing has been crossed off the list. But I have been working all day. I feel terrible, right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. Yeah.
Alexis Haselberger
And so I think that some of this is around, like, redefining for yourself, like what it means for you to feel good, right? Feel good. At the end of the day. I think that sometimes it’s really helpful to have built in reflection questions for ourselves, that we come back that we don’t try to remember, or at least those of us with limited working memories, don’t try to remember. But it’s like, I have questions that are like in my task system that pop up to me every week. That’s like, just things around, I don’t know, like, is my schedule working for me the way that I want it to right now? Do I need to be sleeping more? Should I, you know, like, what are the, what are those things? A lot of my clients have struggle with, just like not really realizing when they’re about to go off the deep end and like things are about to go nuts, you know. And so a lot of them will put a task into either a system or reminder or something else that pops up on a regular basis that says, like, how’s everything going with my systems? Like, am I backlogged on stuff? Do I need to take a step back? If I do need to take a step back and regroup, then what are the actual steps I would need to do that? Right? I think it can be really helpful to ask yourself on a regular basis, like, what are the activities that I do that fill me up that I really liked doing? And did I do any of those last week?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah.
Alexis Haselberger
Right? Like, and I’m not suggesting that you need to have like a 20 questions for yourself all the time. But I think that building in some practices of reflection about what is going well, and what isn’t, I know I do, I have this little spreadsheet that like has two tabs. One tab is successes. The other tab is, well it says failures, but I should probably change it to like growth areas or something. But I literally just every week when I’m making a plan for the next week, I just pop in there for 30 seconds. And I just like write down what went well this week. And what didn’t go well this week. And I find that that’s 30 seconds of time, that really helps me because I can start to see patterns. Like if I have one off week, fine, no problem. But if I can see six weeks in a row I’m saying, oh, I didn’t exercise this week, I didn’t exercise this week, I didn’t exercise this week. That is a pattern and that means that I need to do something about it, right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
I feel very seen and uncomfortable by that.
Alexis Haselberger
I’m sorry. (laughs)
Sarah Noll Wilson
You were talking about how somebody, the people you work with, don’t always realize they’re on the verge of burnout or high stress or whatever the cases. It feels again, speaking of American corporate culture, let’s just name that.
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Almost like you’re supposed to be crispy before you start. And, and, and again, that even that is something I’m trying to relearn is why do I feel like I have to sprint and push myself to then deserve rest. And even you know, what I love is, Amy, my Chief of Staff and colleague, she sends out these loving nudges. Just a reminder, we’re a company for humans. And here’s the time people have scheduled between now and the end of first quarter. And just a reminder, you do not need to earn your rest, because we just need to remind ourselves of it. And how do we, how do, I mean this is not a question. Just like, like, how do we try to keep shifting our beliefs and our cultures that, that idea of what would success look like? What does productivity look like? Should it mean that I have to get burned?
Alexis Haselberger
Right? Like who is it serving? Right? Like that’s something I always come back to like this is serving, right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Capitalism.
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah, capitalism, right. And I so I think that there’s a couple of things one just tiny tactic that is gonna sound super silly, but it works pretty well for a lot of people who are struggling with the idea of rest, and who are like, but I have a million personal projects I should be doing if I’m home or if I’m not working like it better be doing something that is productive. And so sometimes I’ll tell them to experiment with just putting a calendar invite on their calendar for themselves from like Friday at 5pm to Saturday at noon or whatever that just says, do whatever I want.
Sarah Noll Wilson
(giggles)
Alexis Haselberger
Do whatever I want, right? And it’s funny, it sounds so silly and like, it wouldn’t work. But sometimes it’s like, you need to give yourself that permission. And it’s like giving the permission to your future self, you’re able to be like, oh, okay, well, you know what, I’m supposed to be doing whatever I want right now. And so who knows what that is? Right? I don’t think there’s an easy answer to this question of like how do we pushback –
Sarah Noll Wilson
No, there’s not.
Alexis Haselberger
About, you know, the, the kind of culture of toxic capitalism, right? Late stage capitalism, but I think that reminding ourselves, like I always think about this, right? Like, how many lawyers do you know? Who, like or doctors, right? Who they’re like, Okay, I’m going to be a doctor, I’m going to be a lawyer, I’m gonna go to school, I’m gonna go schools for 12 years, I’m gonna get that job. I’m gonna, like, make partner I’m gonna whatever. And then they wake up one day, and they’re like, oh, like, I don’t actually, yes, I have the title. But I don’t actually enjoy the day to day. And so a question that I think I’ve been asking myself this for a long time, and I would encourage other people to ask themselves is, do you feel like crap at the end of the day or not? Because if you do feel like crap at the end of the day, most days, then you might need to make some changes, right? And it sounds simple to say, –
Sarah Noll Wilson
If you have the options.
Alexis Haselberger
If you have the options to make changes. And if you don’t have the options, then it’s really, really hard, right? Because if we don’t have the options, the only thing we can do really is try to reframe our thinking about it.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. Yeah.
Alexis Haselberger
And I am not saying that that is –
Sarah Noll Wilson
Also easy.
Alexis Haselberger
It’s also I’m not saying it’s easy. And I’m not saying it’s enough, either, right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
I love that.
Alexis Haselberger
But if we don’t have the options to make changes, then we have the, you know, I always go back to Viktor Frankl, right? And, you know, Man’s Search for Meaning. It’s like as the ultimate of that, right? Like, when we are in a situation we cannot change, what can we do in our own thinking to change how we’re feeling about that. But I really think like we as a culture, overvalue the like title, the success, the awards, the accolades, like all of that. And we really undervalue, like, how did I feel today? Did I enjoy the time? Did I use my brain in a way that like, was good? Did I have good interactions with people? Like, that stuff, I think is so much more, makes for much more meaningful life, then, than when we just feel fried all of the time. Again, admitting that like, not everyone has the privilege to change their circumstances at all.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Alexis, I’m so glad we finally made this happen.
Alexis Haselberger
Me too.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I have so many more questions. So we’re just going to have to bring you back on.
Alexis Haselberger
All right, let’s do it.
Sarah Noll Wilson
But I want to be thoughtful of time in the spirit of being intentional.
Alexis Haselberger
Great.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Before, before we talk about the ways you support people, since this is the first time you’re on our show.
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I want to ask you the question we ask all of our new guests, which is what’s a conversation you’ve had with yourself or someone else that was transformative?
Alexis Haselberger
So I think for me, this is gonna it’s it was a simple conversation. And it falls under the category of like, Mom advice.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. Yeah.
Alexis Haselberger
Which is like a long time ago, probably when I was in high school. My mom, just like offhand said to me, you don’t get what you don’t ask for. And I feel like that was really transformative for me, because I’m sure she was talking about something kind of flippant at the time. But to me, that means so many other things, right? It’s like, in order to ask for what you want, or what you need, you have to actually know what you want, or what you need, you have to do that work, right? In order to ask for what you want or need you have to be willing to get uncomfortable, because it is not comfortable to ask for what we need or to center ourselves. You have to recognize that people aren’t mind readers. And that like, yeah, it’s okay to ask, you have to take a look at things from the listener’s perspective. Because sometimes when you’re going to ask for something that you want, and you need to gauge it, couch it in terms that make sense to their bottom line, because your incentives might not always be aligned. So I think of that when I think of a conversation that was really transformative to me.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Beautiful. Thanks for sharing. Okay, I know there are people who are listening who are thinking, I need what she’s offering. I need what you’re offering. (laughter) We’ll talk afterwards. But for people who want to learn more, how can people connect with you and what are the ways that you work with folks?
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah, great. So the first, the easiest way to get in touch with me is to just go to my website, which is Alexis Haselberger dot com Hopefully we’ll put it in the show notes because no one can spell it.
Sarah Noll Wilson
We will, we will.
Alexis Haselberger
Okay. So that’s the best place to go. I’m also on most of the socials at Do More Stress Less. Instagram being Do dot More dot Stress dot less. How do I work with people? So I work with people in a number of different ways. So first, of course, I have one-on-one coaching. I and we that’s very bespoke, we work exactly with you, I always, I also have a group program that follows the exact same arc that I run twice a year. And that, you know, I love one of people said recently, she was in a testimonial, she said, even though it’s a group program, I felt like I was supported individually the whole time. And I was like, oh, that’s, that’s lovely. I’m so glad to hear that, because that’s my intention. I also have online courses. So I have things that are available at lower price points, because obviously, you know, coaching is not accessible to everybody. And then I also have a free newsletter and a YouTube channel where you can subscribe and you can get a little bit of me in your inbox or your YouTube feed every single week.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I love it, it will be sure to link to all of those in the show notes so people can have access to them.
Alexis Haselberger
Great.
Sarah Noll Wilson
(exhales) Alexis, my dear, thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much for your coaching that you gave me and our (laughs) many thousand listeners. I would just appreciate you coming on the show. So thank you.
Alexis Haselberger
Yeah, thank you. It’s been a really fun conversation.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Our guest this week has been Alexis Haselberger, who is trying to redefine productivity in this age of hustle. And one of the things, one of the things that I really want to work on and to be totally honest, when we stopped recording, I said send me your coaching information (laughs) because I need you in my life, is that idea of redefining what is productivity mean to you? What would that success look like? And her definition of doing what I intended to do. That, that’s just really is sticking with me. And we want to hear from you. What resonated for you? What came up for you? What questions came up for you? What connections did you make? You can always reach out to us on social media where my DMs are always open. I’m typically most prevalent on LinkedIn. You can also send us an email directly. We’d love to hear from all of you from around the world, our friends, you can do that at podcast @ SarahNollWilson.com. And again, we’d love to hear from you. And also feel free to reach out if there’s topics that you want us to explore or speakers you want to recommend for us to consider to be on the show this year. Also, if you’d like to support the show, and you haven’t already, please be sure to rate, review and subscribe to the show on your preferred podcast platform. The algorithm picks up the more reviews we have and the more comments we have so we can continue to get exposure across the world and bring on great guests like Alexis Haselberger. Also, if you want to financially support the show, you can do so by becoming a patron. You can go to patreon.com/conversations on conversations, where 100% of your financial support will go to support the entire crew that makes this show possible, and you’ll get some pretty great swag.
And I want to give a big thanks to the team that makes this show possible. To our producer Nick Wilson, to our sound editor Drew Noll, to our transcriptionist Becky Reinert, to our marketing consultant Jessica Burdg and the rest of the SNoWCo crew. While it is me on the mic, it is not me behind the mic. So thank you all. And then I just want to give a final thank you to Alexis Haselberger. We’ve, our paths crossed many, many years ago, we’ve just kept in touch and it was such a gift to be with her in conversation and to share that with all of you today. So my friends, this has been Conversations on Conversations. Thank you all so much for listening, giving us your time and your attention. And remember, when we can change the conversations we have with ourselves and others, we can change the world. So until next week, please be sure to rest, rehydrate and reconnect and we’ll see you again soon. Take care everyone
Sarah Noll Wilson is on a mission to help leaders build and rebuild teams. She aims to empower leaders to understand and honor the beautiful complexity of the humans they serve. Through her work as an Executive Coach, an in-demand Keynote Speaker, Researcher, Contributor to Harvard Business Review, and Bestselling Author of “Don’t Feed the Elephants”, Sarah helps leaders close the gap between what they intend to do and the actual impact they make. She hosts the podcast “Conversations on Conversations”, is certified in Co-Active Coaching and Conversational Intelligence, and is a frequent guest lecturer at universities. In addition to her work with organizations, Sarah is a passionate advocate for mental health.