Have you ever heard of Emotional Salary?
Essentially, it’s the emotional complement to the financial part of your earnings.
If you’re job hunting–or working on the retention of your valued team members–you’re not going to want to miss this conversation with Sarah Noll Wilson, Dr. Teresa Peterson, and Brandon Springle.
There’s a ton to unpack here. Join us next week for Part II!
VIDEO
LET’S TALK
Besides Sarah, follow Brandon Springle and Teresa Peterson (if you don’t already!)
TRANSCRIPT
Sarah Noll Wilson:
Hi everyone. Sarah Nell Wilson here. So excited to join you for this week’s newsletter conversation as we discuss this topic of emotional salary, which may be a concept that people are not as familiar with. It was something that we’ve been evolving in our understanding. Joining me on this weekly discussion is my dear friend, good colleague, Dr. Theresa Peterson. Hi Theresa.
Dr. Teresa Peterson:
Hi everyone.
Sarah Noll Wilson:
And for those of you who didn’t catch the interview or conversation that Theresa had with our good friend and strategic partner, Brandon Springle, let me take a moment to introduce Brandon to you all. He is literally our favorite human, one of our favorite humans that we get to work with,
Dr. Teresa Peterson:
The ones I haven’t given birth to. And then there’s Brandon. So there you go, Brandon. It’s just that, wow,
Brandon Springle:
That is so crazy.
Sarah Noll Wilson:
We connected a while back on social media over my book, and then we connected around thinking and thought partnership. And Brandon does a lot of amazing talent development, talent management, leadership development, work in his full-time job and helps us with research. And so we’re so excited to keep bringing him forward so you all can meet him and be a part of the great conversations we have. He is based in the South Tennessee, South Carolina. Why do I always want to say South Carolina? It’s not. It’s Tennessee.
Brandon Springle:
I’m on the border of Tennessee, right? In Georgia.
Sarah Noll Wilson:
Georgia, okay. But like Southern.
Brandon Springle:
Yeah, definitely southern.
Sarah Noll Wilson:
Yeah. No, I don’t know. It doesn’t matter. Okay, Georgia. So with that, one of the topics that Brandon had bubbled up to us as we were doing research for various projects we’ve been working on is this idea of emotional salary. And I want to kick it over to Brandon to talk about this. And then we’re just going to have a conversation. And as you’re listening, as always, we love to hear from you what comes up for you, what’s true about this, and where do you disagree, what are other things you would add? So please be sure to do that. But this concept of emotional salary is so critical for those of us who are anywhere in the leadership or HR space to be thinking about and also to be thinking about for those of us who are just our team members in the workplace about what we need. So Brandon, what’s emotional salary?
Brandon Springle:
So emotional salary essentially is that emotional compliment to the financial piece of your earnings. So because of inflation and the economy and different factors, if somebody’s wanting to leave a job, that’s a big part of the reason why for more money, because it’s difficult to make ends meet at times. People are having a very difficult time paying their bills. And just the stress from what’s come from the pandemic and things of that nature, it’s still going on now. And so this concept of emotional salary has surfaced again pretty intensely lately. And it’s been around for about 15 years and the academic research, but now it’s back full force. And so I had looked at this content from Achievers Workforce Institute, and they do just different research on significant topics. And that’s where I found out about it again. And I had heard about it before. It was an emotional wage, but now coming back full surface and just seeing, okay, this is something we definitely need to explore a little bit more and how do you increase it and things of that nature, because you can’t just keep raising a wage. So there has to be something more so complimentary to help navigate.
Sarah Noll Wilson:
Is there anything that you would add to that, Theresa, or what comes up for you?
Dr. Teresa Peterson:
I really enjoy your use of the word complimentary because it’s not one or the other, but it’s salt and pepper. It feels like to me. They go together and make every dish a little bit better. So that was what was coming up for me. I hadn’t heard the word complimentary used in that equation, and I really enjoyed that. Yeah. Sarah, what about you?
Sarah Noll Wilson:
Yeah, I think the thing that I’ve been chewing on is we’ve been thinking about this concept of the emotional wage, which I even like that, but the emotional salary is more often than not, people are taking a cost cut or cut because of the emotional salary, because of working in an environment where they’re not valued, working in an environment where they don’t have autonomy or flexibility or freedom over their time. Working in an environment where there’s high distrust because the organization isn’t who they say they are. Or maybe they’re working for a boss who is not supportive at best and potentially abusive at worse. But then the flip side is we have seen firsthand what is possible when the emotional salary is super duper high, and it always stands out. I think, Theresa, I’m curious to hear your thoughts, but whenever we get the privilege of working with a truly highly engaged team, and I don’t mean a tolerance team, but a highly engaged team that it feels special. I dunno how to say it other than that. And Brandon, I know in your work, I’m sure you see that in your world as well, but it’s palpable when the emotional, emotional salary is high and it’s palpable when it’s low.
Dr. Teresa Peterson:
Yeah, I mean, something that comes up in my mind is when we see really highly engaged teams or teams where the emotional wage is very high, there’s an ease about them, there’s an ease about them. Even in the hardest moments, they can find togetherness. They often have inside jokes that include everyone. They’re not about someone. They’re within the group about the work or things that they’ve done together before. And there’s a real ease about it. And I think it’s fun because I don’t know what the real number is. I think at least 50% of the time people think this is great, but I don’t know that it’s as unique as you think it is. And then I think the other half is very clearly in the camp of this is a really unique situation, and I’m kicking and screaming my way out of here. I’m not going anywhere. So Brandon, how does this show up for you or in the circles that you run in?
Brandon Springle:
Yeah, I would say for me, it makes me really focus on cultural architecture and just understanding that real genuine culture is a competitive advantage. The relationships that we have in the workplace really matter a lot. It’s very important to feel like you have a friend or somebody that you can connect to in the workplace. So I just think about the relationship dynamics and how much time we often spend doing work. If you don’t feel safe, if it’s a toll, it doesn’t really matter how much you earn financially, if it’s harmful to your psychology.
Sarah Noll Wilson:
Yeah. And especially depending on your industry, it can be even more of a competitive advantage. There’s a lot of industries right now where the labor pool is shrinking, and that’s a differentiator. You know what I was having this moment of, I had forgotten, I think I had repressed this memory from my early career. I totally was in a situation where the cost was super high, I was making more, and I took a position with less money simply because I was hoping it could at least be better. And then no surprise, the company I left was in legal shambles for a while because of how they treated the students. But I digress. Yeah, go ahead.
Dr. Teresa Peterson:
Let’s play with the inverse of this for a minute too. Yeah, it resonated with me to hear both of you say that a good culture that is a competitive advantage. And I completely agree, and I think some people listening might be thinking it’s still a nice to have. So I want to rephrase it. If you do not have a good culture, you are at a competitive disadvantage. Everyone knows ps. Everyone knows people talk about it. I think there’s still this idea that people are loyal and they’re not telling the secrets, or they’re not reaching out for help or they’re not telling their friends like, oh, we have an opening, but no, absolutely, you don’t want to come here. Not that department. We all know these stories, so I want to push people to see it, that you’re actually disadvantaging yourself, your team, your company, when you’re not tending to the culture, when you’re not considering the value of emotional salary.
Sarah Noll Wilson:
Yeah, yeah. Not just those companies will, you will always underperform compared to them.
Dr. Teresa Peterson:
Yeah. Retaining people, recruiting people. I think it’s the whole shebang.
Brandon Springle:
And just go ahead. I was going to say toxicity is just not sustainable. Pay only lasts, but for so long before it’s like, okay, I’m used to making this amount of money, but I can’t get used to taking this amount of stress and this burden home with me. And so it’s just the thought process of making that shift to really focus and navigate an environment where you can truly be yourself. You are supported, you get recognition for doing things that you should do, but most importantly, you get appreciation for being a human being. And it is really bad practice to not treat people as humans because we innately desire to be embraced. Even if we don’t think that we do. It makes me think of Maslow’s hierarchy. You have to get those baseline needs met and then you might go towards esteem and really trying to fulfill that potential. But if you’re missing that belongingness and other things like that, trying to get that potential fulfilled, you might always find yourself coming back down that pyramid.
Sarah Noll Wilson:
And I suspect it’s easy for people to wrap their head around the obvious ways that emotional cost can show up, a toxic workplace working for a boss that micromanages you, that doesn’t advocate for you. One of the things as I was reading, and Brandon, I think that was you and I were looking at some similar articles that I appreciate it got called out was one of the ways you can think about the emotional salary is through the lens of is your company doing what they say they are and are they behaving in ways that they say they value? And I want to tee that up over to you because Brandon, you and I have had lots of conversations around how so many companies essentially have identity crisis is how you’ve labeled it. And I’m curious to have you unpack for us just the why is that a cost, right? Why does that deplete the emotional salary bank when a company says, we’re human first, we care about our people, we’re a family. And then what’s possible when you’re in alignment? So yeah, it’s getting rid of people who are contributing in ways that are harmful and unproductive and toxic. But it’s systemic too. It isn’t just based off of who your manager is.
Brandon Springle:
Yeah. Job seekers align their values to company values oftentimes, and going through a process and coming into an organization and then you learn, Hey, this isn’t quite the picture you initially painted. It’s a shock to the system. And so it’s that cultural misalignment that pops up and it creates cognitive dissonance that you really just can’t process because even for a season, it might seem like everything is okay in that first 90 days, good behavior. But at some point things start to shift and true colors begin to show in an environment that’s not quite what it says it is through the value statements and things of that nature. And so just thinking through how do you tell the truth? And no company is going to be perfect, right? There’s always going to be things an organization could do better, but just a clear view in the mirror and then that proper reflection to the employee base. So there’s not this shock to the system that exists when there is misalignment.
Sarah Noll Wilson:
I feel like when people experience companies where there is alignment, it’s surprising because of how often it’s not common. Oh, we value the people, but all of our behavior is about valuing profits only we say we are a family, but whatever we do massive layoffs every six months so we can just get our financial sheets in order and then we do another hiring or whatever the case might be. What comes up for you, Theresa,
Dr. Teresa Peterson:
Your use of the word shock to the system took me back to a similar situation I’d been in. And it really truly did feel like a shock to my system that what I was presented and what ended up being in a very short period of time was just painful. Painful. It was a painful disconnect and it never got better because when you think about employee engagement or how I’ll do my best work, well, my hope is completely gone. I’ve lost trust. I’ve lost faith. I can barely get out of my car. I mean, it was truly a shock. So I appreciate your use of that word. It makes me feel a little misty just recounting that story because it was really painful. It was really painful.
Sarah Noll Wilson:
And sometimes it’s a slow burn too because oh yeah, we’ve seen it where a company has strong alignment and then they start pushing for massive growth and suddenly everything that made them special, everything that made people proud to work for suddenly wasn’t a priority. And the shock is almost you wake up someday and go, I don’t even recognize this place. What happened? And the grief on one hand, there’s the sort of buyer’s remorse, but when you have been part of the system that worked really well, that was aligned, and then it shifted because leadership changed, because strategy changed, whatever may have triggered it. And then the value shift that can be just as jarring for folks. And we’ve witnessed certainly an incredible amount of grief over the loss of what once was. And when you think about that, again, if your priority is productivity and I’m spending any amount of energy being sad about who we aren’t anymore and unsure and uncertain and nervous, because I also don’t know who we’re becoming, that’s a lot of mental energy and something that I don’t know until just recently because of some of the situations we’ve been supporting, if I appreciated how significant that impact is as companies are transitioning and not and losing sight of what made them work really, really well,
Brandon Springle:
I think it’s really important that organizations focus on those. I call ’em pockets of goodness. You have the macro community and then the micro communities, for example, we have resource groups. In the past I’ve led a resource group and I consider that like a micro community. And I always look to make sure that that community were having at a micro level matched the overarching picture because you can have a good moment or you can have a good career and things line up. So just want to unpack that a little bit. There’s a bigger culture and then there’s small community cultures because in every organization you’ll always find really good people, people that you can connect with. And then the overarching culture should embody that same environment that you get in the micro culture if you really want it to be sustainable.
Sarah Noll Wilson:
That language you’re using is valuable from a standpoint of being intentional because one of the, depending on there’s no, here’s the five things you need to do to increase your emotional salary, but we know that there are factors such as, do I have friends at work? Are there people who care about me as a human? Is there somebody who knows my kids’ names? Is there somebody who knows my favorite? I think one of the articles talked about my favorite coffee order and ways you can cultivate that sense of community is on a micro level, like employee resource groups or networking opportunities or mentoring opportunities or volunteer events, whatever that might look like. And then on a macro level, what are we doing? How are we holding people accountable to be thinking about this?
Tell us what you think, and Stay tuned next week for Part II of this conversation!
Sarah Noll Wilson is on a mission to help leaders build and rebuild teams. She aims to empower leaders to understand and honor the beautiful complexity of the humans they serve. Through her work as an Executive Coach, an in-demand Keynote Speaker, Researcher, Contributor to Harvard Business Review, and Bestselling Author of “Don’t Feed the Elephants”, Sarah helps leaders close the gap between what they intend to do and the actual impact they make. She hosts the podcast “Conversations on Conversations”, is certified in Co-Active Coaching and Conversational Intelligence, and is a frequent guest lecturer at universities. In addition to her work with organizations, Sarah is a passionate advocate for mental health.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Dr. Teresa Peterson is the Director of Learning and Development for Sarah Noll Wilson, Inc. In her daily work, she serves as Sarah’s key content collaborator. Teresa enjoys facilitating, researching, and is passionate about applying best practices for learning to make our experiences meaningful, engaging, and accessible for all types of learners. Teresa holds a Doctorate in Education from the University of Northern Iowa and brings over twenty years of experience teaching, facilitating, and leading to our team. Our clients love Teresa’s grounded energy, depth of thought, and ability to listen deeply.