Join Sarah Noll Wilson and guest Allison Peet as they discuss the powerful practice of Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (MBSR).
About Our Guest
Allison Peet is a certified Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) Instructor trained at UMass Center for Mindfulness, founded by Jon Kabat-Zinn, PhD and the Mindfulness Center at Brown University. She is trained through Mindful Schools and is a certified Buteyko Breathing Method instructor and registered yoga instructor (RYT200). She’s taught since 2015 and hundreds have graduated from her MBSR program. Based on a pre and post self-evaluation, 87% of MBSR grads lowered their perceived stress, and reduced stress levels an average of 35%. All of her individual students reduce their stress by an average of half after 8 sessions. Allison completes multiple week-long silent meditation retreats and has a regular practice. The cultivation of mindfulness transformed her relationship with stress and anxiety which motivated her to start her own business in 2015, From Within Wellness, to benefit others.
Resources mentioned
Website: www.fromwithinwellness.com
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/allison-peet-b65b825a
Facebook: www.facebook.com/fromwithinwellness
TRANSCRIPT
Sarah Noll Wilson
Hello and welcome to this week’s episode of Conversations on Conversations where each week we explore a topic to help us have more powerful conversations with ourselves and others. I’m your host, Sarah Noll Wilson. And joining me today is an old friend. But it’s been a while since we’ve connected, Allison Peet. And we’re going to be talking about this very important practice of mindfulness based stress reduction, which, you know, honestly, as we’re going into the end of the new year, or the end of the year, (laughs) the end of the year. We have all the stresses of work wrapping up, holiday season for many of us, and just how can we think differently about it? So let me tell you a little bit about Allison and then we’ll hop into our conversation. Allison Peet is a certified Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction instructor trained at the UMass Center of Mindfulness, which was founded by Jon Kabat-Zinn PhD, and the Mindfulness Center at Brown University. She is trained through Mindful Schools and is a certified Buteyko Breathing Method instructor and registered yoga instructor. She has taught since 2015, and hundreds have graduated from her MBSR program. Based on the pre and post self evaluations, and I was one of her participants, and we’ll get into that (laughs). 87% of MBSR grads lowered their perceived stress and reduce stress levels on average of 35%. All of her individual students reduce their stress by an average of half after eight sessions. Allison completes multiple week long silent meditation retreats and has a regular practice. The cultivation of mindfulness transformed her relationship with stress and anxiety, which motivated her to start her own business in 2015, From Within Wellness to benefit others. Welcome to the show, Allison.
Allison Peet
Thank you so much, Sarah. Thanks so much for having me.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I had so I’m so excited to I’m so excited to have you on the show. Because I don’t remember. Well, okay, first, sorry. Let me ask you the question. I always ask everyone, and then we’ll get into like our history. What else should we know about you?
Allison Peet
What else should we know about you? Well, I grew up in Iowa, born and raised. I have a loving husband. We are going to be celebrating our 20th wedding anniversary in June.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Congrats!
Allison Peet
Yes, and I think we both grew up in the same town. So that’s pretty cool.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Did we? Dubuque?
Allison Peet
Yes, I grew up in Dubuque
Sarah Noll Wilson
Oh, that’s right.
Allison Peet
Yes.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I forgot that that was a connection of ours.
Allison Peet
Yes, I think I remembered that, too. So, went to UNI, I have two kids.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Right!
Allison Peet
Big transition year. I have a freshman in high school now. And seventh grader. She’s starting junior high.
Sarah Noll Wilson
How are they that old?
Allison Peet
I know. One is taller than me and one is gaining. So yeah, busy, busy life, but also just wonderful. We, everything’s going so well. And yeah. So thank you.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I love that. I don’t remember how we got connected. But I know that you and I started to meet in probably like 2014. You were just starting your practice. And somehow we got connected because at that time I was coming off of my panic disorder, I had found Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction to just help me manage that. And I just remember there is a restaurant in the Skywalk we met at a lot. (laughs)
Allison Peet
Yes, yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And I feel like we had pizza. And I don’t remember what it was called. But I felt like that was our spot that we would get together and just like, tell stories of you know, our anxiety and how mindfulness has been helping. And that’s how we bonded. And it’s so awesome to see how much you’ve grown in this time and how we’ve just kind of grown together. Same journey.
Allison Peet
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Sarah Noll Wilson
So, so I know your story. But the people listening don’t. So take us back to what set you on this journey.
Allison Peet
It was a whole lot of stress. So I’ve, I’ve noticed that my students, both group and the individuals I work with, they don’t come to a mindfulness practice because things are going really well in their life. Many people are under a lot of stress and anxiety and need to help themselves. So I was in that same boat. That’s why I think I can connect so well with the people that I teach is because I’m walking the path. I was there with them about 2013ish. So my second kid was born in 2011. And I had very small children. I was working a crazy job. My husband was traveling. So my kids were toddlers and I was experiencing huge amounts of stress which looking back turned into anxiety. I dealt with postpartum depression after, especially after my second child was born. I think it was kind of a functional depression. I’m like, oh, no, I’m too busy. I can’t sit still. I can’t face this right now. So – I was – my anxiety symptoms were pretty mild until they weren’t so they I just kept rolling being with them and coping with them in not so healthy ways. Over exercising, having too many glasses of wine at the end of the night, things like that, and then not sleeping well. I was very reactive with my children. And that’s not the thing that you want to do when they’re toddlers, you know, they, they, they need a much more calm person to tune their nervous systems to and I wasn’t very attuning at the time. I wasn’t sleeping well. And I, I knew I needed to help myself. But I didn’t know how. I didn’t understand how to get off that proverbial treadmill that a lot of us tend to find ourselves on.
So I had a good friend that was taking the Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction course. She worked at the University of Iowa, and they at the time, the employees got to take it for free. So she was very impressed with the class. She said, you might want to look into this class called Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction. And my stress was, was over the top and I all I saw was stress reduction. So I said I need that. I was, I felt so gravitated towards it, that I looked for a teacher here in Des Moines, I couldn’t find one. So I ended up taking it online. And it was pre recorded classes, this was pre-Covid.
Sarah Noll Wilson
This was like pre all of it.
Allison Peet
Yes. So they weren’t live. Nothing was available online at the time. It was pre recorded videos that I just would sit in front of my computer screen and watch this pre recorded video of these people from UMass teaching. And it changed my life. It was – and I don’t say that about many things really. Except for my kids and right? So I, I was just, I was blown away at how not present I had been. And I, I was very impressed that I could be a part of my own health care. That this was something that I could do for myself, with and for myself. MBSR was the spark, I always have to say when telling the story. It wasn’t just MBSR. It was also, I saw therapist. I also decided to get on medication for about six months, that helps me get out of that hole. I took a little step back from work a little bit for a while too, because I know I was just pushing myself way too hard. So it’s an eight week course. By the, by about halfway through, and definitely by all the way through, I was sleeping better. I was way less reactive with my children, especially that was very triggering. I just, I kind of felt like there was a different way of living, rather than what I was doing. And my my physical anxiety symptoms were way down. So yeah, I have a deeply personal path to practicing this, because it helped me and I thought, you know what, if I’m such a fidgety type A person, if like if this can help me, how many other people could this help? So that’s kind of the spark of like, it’s a huge career shift, going from the corporate world to teaching mindfulness, (laughs) and starting my own business.
Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s, yeah, I remember, I remember we walked kind of similar paths around that time. And I’ve talked on the show before a little bit about, you know, my journey is similar. 2013 was the year of losing my sense of (chuckles) I don’t know, everything, and developing panic disorder. And. And similarly, like, in addition to therapy, it was being introduced to mindfulness practices that helped me have a different relationship. So let’s, let’s just start there. I mean, I know that it’s a concept that’s been around, but we shouldn’t assume that everybody knows. So what’s, how do you like to describe or define just even let’s talk first mindfulness? And then let’s talk about how does this practice look from a stress reduction perspective? And also just like, and why, why it works? Right? So let’s just start with how you define it first.
Allison Peet
Yeah. So I define mindfulness as simply as I can, it’s, it’s knowing what’s on your mind in any given moment, without kind of taking the bait. We can start to discover that we don’t necessarily have to believe everything we think. And we can start to challenge those thoughts. And we, the, the essence of mindfulness is being in the present moment. And knowing what’s actually happening internally, right, internally, body sensations in our minds and also externally what’s happening in our external environment. So and, and knowing how to navigate the present moments, even when that moment is unpleasant. I think that is the huge part of mindfulness. Many people think that it’s all about maybe escaping, really blissing out or being calm and relaxed all the time. And, yeah, calm and relaxation is a goal or is a byproduct, but it’s actually not the goal. The goal of a mindfulness practice is to be awake and alert to whatever is arising. The good, the bad and the ugly. So we learn to respond more wisely to difficulty in our life, rather than react out of habitual states, out of emotional states pretty blindly. So it’s basically getting out of autopilot mode.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah. And just like that non judgmental awareness, the, the timing of this episode is going to be really lovely. What you don’t know is the episode that’s going to air before this conversation was, that we just recorded this morning actually, was talking to two psychologists who specialize in OCD, and intrusive thinking, and how, right, like just that like, sticky mind and all of that. And, you know, there was something that, something you said that I wanted to dig into, because I remember when I was on, well, I remember before I got into my practice, and I don’t know how this was similar or different than yours. But the idea that I had of like meditation was different than what mindfulness meditation was. Also, I think that this idea of, it’s about being able to control your thoughts, it’s about being able to have no thoughts, you know, and then people get frustrated, and it’s like, oh, no, you can’t shut that, you can’t shut that shit off.
Allison Peet
Right. Exactly.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Those thoughts are gonna be there, baby. (laughs) And, and also, this idea of just like, cultivating deep curiosity about about yourself. What would you say to people – Well, the thing that was like a helpful metaphor for me was it, it’s like, if your brain is a shooken up snowglobe, like, mindfulness just helps the snow settle. The snow still there, it just helps it settle. But how do you respond when when you’re working with, you know, students, or individuals who maybe are coming in with like, I want to get better at meditation. I want to get better at not having thoughts, how do you respond to them?
Allison Peet
Yeah, that’s a great question. So I always start out with, we can’t shut our brain down. We can’t stop our thinking. And many people are like, Whoa, I thought that’s what meditation was all about is stopping my mind or stopping the thoughts. And in reality, it’s like trying to stop the waves of the ocean, right? Our minds are meant to wave, that’s the thinking mind, it comes and goes. And we have little to no control over the thoughts that come into and out of our awareness. What we do have control over is our relationship to those thoughts. So that’s what mindfulness helps us with is, like you said, that big word is curiosity and non judgment. We bring a curious, interested focus to these thoughts that are arising, and then we get to choose whether we turn towards them or turn away. And that’s the beauty of this is that we get to decide what thoughts we do want to dive deeper into and really proliferate. And then we also decide we get to have that space, right? I think, you know, this in between stimulus and responses, that is the space by Viktor Frankl, we have that space of do do I need to necessarily give this, these thoughts my full attention. So our attention is kind of like our vision, our attention, has, we have this really amazing focal point of attention in our central vision, and then everything else, the periphery is kind of like this, isn’t that that important right now. So we do the same thing with our mindfulness practice, we have this really amazing bright attention that we can be curious with and non judgmental with. And then the rest of it, we can be like, it doesn’t get as strong, right, the attention that we give that is not as strong, that tends to get weaker. So we become more efficient in our thinking we were more successful in that.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. No, I love that. And I, and one of the things, I think, with the mindfulness practice, in particular, because obviously, there are different types of meditations that are out there, is about that, being able to connect with everything that you’re experiencing. You know, that was another kind of myth I held that, oh, you only can meditate by sitting cross legged and, and humming a mantra or whatever, and, and not realizing, no, you can, you know, and this was some of the work that I got to experience when I was part of your program early on of what does it look like to walk mindfully? What does it look like to eat mindfully? What does it look like? Which really just you know, again, I I think it’s, it’s like so profound when you realize how little you spend in the present. (laughs)
Allison Peet
Exactly.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I like, one of the things I remember from your Silent – is now it’s coming back. (laughter) The Silent Retreat that you did. So for folks who are listening at the end of the eight weeks, there’s a – was it a whole day or half day? I don’t remember. I think maybe it was a –
Allison Peet
It’s about six hours. So we call it a full day.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Six hours. Yeah. Totally silent. I was like, (laughs) I’m not going to able to do this. But, but one are the things you, you taught us that I still have moments. I’ll catch myself and I’ll have a little Allison in my brain, when we were eating mindfully is you said, notice how you bring your bringing the fork to your mouth before you’ve even like chewed and swallowed, you know, it’s like, you take a bite, you’re chewing, you’ve already got that fork to your mouth, and what does it like to just sit with and savor and sometimes I’ll catch myself like, damn it. Like, there I go again. But, but so talk to us. I mean, because that’s, that’s the other thing I’m curious about is there’s the practice of mindfulness based stress reduction, right? There’s the practice of mindfulness, and then there’s the living mindfully. And, and so I’m curious to just hear your thoughts on that. It’s also really fun to see where you’re thinking – like it, I just sorry, I have to pause everyone because, you know, like, I feel like we grew up together.
Allison Peet
(laughs) Sure, yes.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And I’m really enjoying like, the depth of like, just how you’re thinking of I just I really appreciating like watching your journey with this. And so how do you, you know, what does it look like to live mindfully?
Allison Peet
I love this. I love this question, because I talk a lot to my groups and individuals about this. Because there’s, I think there’s two different ways that we can develop a mindfulness practice, which I think a mindfulness practice is the same as living our lives as fully and completely as we possibly can. So when I say meditation, that’s not like this some separate thing where we’re separating ourselves from our lives. Mindfulness meditation is getting into our lives as deeply and richly and authentically as we possibly can. So meditation and life, I think are the same thing. I don’t think there’s any difference at all. So it’s just different ways that you can cultivate it. So the formal practice of mindfulness is meditation. So you sit down, you can listen to a recording, you can just follow your breath. But it’s really slowing the video down almost of your life of like, just the breath, or just the step, or just this bite of food. It’s really slowing things down. And then noticing what happens to your mind. The mind goes, this is really boring. What the hell are we doing here? Why don’t we keep going, you know, all the things that our mind tells us when we slow down. So mindfulness meditation is one way. And I think that’s probably a good chunk of the neuroscience is where people, where people are studying the brain on meditation, mindfulness meditation. There’s another way that many people find a lot more enjoyable, is the informal practice, which is living mindfully, like you said. So there’s meditation. But then there’s also this way that we can develop this anytime, anywhere. I was just on a flight two weeks ago, you can meditate on the plane, you can meditate – It’s my favorite place to practice meditation, especially walking meditation is at airports, when everyone has lost, many people lose their minds very quickly (laughs) with travel. It’s like, can I feel my feet on the ground? Can I feel this breath? Can I just observe what everyone? It’s kind of an interesting thing. So mindfully driving is another one. Because many of us, how often have you missed an exit off the highway when you’ve just been totally lost in your thinking? So it’s – in conversation, it’s treating a conversation as if it’s like the only thing in the world and really honing in your attention. Yeah, so that’s what I think is is different with a mindfulness practice, because it’s just how, how am I focusing or not focusing? How am I being really curious with what’s actually happening? And then also being really skillful with that? Because what you said it kind of reminded me of something where it’s like, yeah, we can be very attentive to what’s actually happening, even when it’s unpleasant. But also we can notice, this is too much for me, this is too overwhelming for me right now. So I have the ability to turn away as well. So maybe the mindfulness practice isn’t the most skillful, isn’t the most, the most kind thing I can do for myself right now. And that’s the beauty of this is what we build this courage. We build this ability to be with ourselves. And even when it’s uncomfortable, and I think that’s because life isn’t always right, unicorns and rainbows. That’s what people think meditation is sometimes. It’s like being all blissed out. But there’s some, there’s some, there’s ways that we can build our compassion and build the kindness towards ourselves too
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, it’s a, that was such a shift for me on so many levels, that honestly, like I’ve gotten away from, and you know, this is good timing to get reconnected with that of it can be uncomfortable and you can still be present with it. You can still be curious with it, you can still like discover something or not. And and it’s all about that that conscious choice. I know over the last decade and more, there’s been a ton of research. So there’s a lot of research that’s come out, because, you know, obviously, mindfulness and meditation has been globally around for centuries.
Allison Peet
Yes.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And, you know, but it’s just been in the last 10-15 years that we’ve been able to go, why why does it have the results it does? What is changing in the brain? And I’m curious, you know, like, if you’d be willing to share what what you what you know now, what is, you know, what is science saying now about what happens to the brain when you practice even a short amount of time, is pretty remarkable?
Allison Peet
Yes, yeah. So a few of the studies that I have memorized by now that are just profound is yes, you’re right, even 10 minutes a day has been proven to help reduce stress and anxiety, increase overall health and well being focus, clarity, creativity. And they found that the more people practice, the more benefits they receive. So Harvard did pretty long term mindfulness study, I think it was eight weeks or more of a mindfulness practice. And I think, I don’t know the exact amount of time everybody asks me this, I’m thinking it’s about 30 to 45 minutes a day of practice. So a little bit longer periods of time. They studied eight weeks of mindfulness practitioners, and they actually hooked them up to brain scans. And after at least eight weeks of practice in that way, they noticed structural changes in the brain. So gray and white matter actually shrank around the amygdala. I know you talk a lot about I think you call it amygdala hijack if I remember right.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. Flooding.
Allison Peet
Yes. Flooding. Yeah. So gray and white matter shrink around that key area of stress. And then they grew, gray and white matter grew in the prefrontal cortex, where there’s more self awareness, there’s more compassion, there’s more logical thinking that grew. So it sounds sci fi, but it’s actually we can prove it. We can prove that we are more efficient, we’re more able to take on a lot more information, we have this larger window of tolerance, where we can be with ourselves even when it’s unpleasant. Another one that was just done in it’s almost a year ago now, it was November of last year, the Journal of American Medical Association came out with the specific Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction class, they split people in two groups, one group took MBSR. One group took Lexapro, which is anti anxiety medication for eight weeks. And they studied both peep both groups. After that eight weeks, both groups had a 20% reduction in anxiety symptoms. So this is just as effective as some antidepressants as well. And then less side effects, too. So you also asked how often people are actually present? How like, how often people are actually in the present moment? I’m curious, if you could guess, percentage wise, how often do you think we?
Sarah Noll Wilson
I feel like pre pandemic, a study I read was like, we spent about half of our day on autopilot. But I wondered how that has actually shifted since COVID. So if you have more information, I’m up for it.
Allison Peet
I only have it pre COVID.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, I was like, because I know, it’s less like we’ve gotten worse.
Allison Peet
Yes, exactly. They should it would be an amazing study to redo after all of this that we’ve been through. Because yes, I think it was another Harvard study. And this is quite a while ago, definitely before COVID. They they use people’s cell phones. And they checked within with them and said, you know, where is your mind? And how happy are you? And 47% of the time, basically, half, they figured out that people’s minds weren’t on what they were actually doing. And that lack of control was making them less happy. So you think about that? I’ve thought about that for a long time. Because that study, it was groundbreaking at the time.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.
Allison Peet
We actually figured out how how often our minds do wander. When you think about it in any given moment, there’s about a 50% chance that we’re not really here. And so our minds really get hijacked by all of that stress, mental content, noise. And this is why I’m doing this is when you think about it in this way. In any given moment. There’s that half of a chance that we’re not here so we could end up missing out on half of our life in that way. So it’s not just about stress reduction, in my opinion, I think it’s about living fully in the present moment, because it’s the only moment that we actually have.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. It’s, you know, one of the things we were talking about before going on is just the accessibility of this, you know. I think that the – and you share the example of on the airplane, it literally is something you can do everywhere. You can, you know, informally practice mindfulness at the grocery store. You can informally practice it, you know, when you are with your kids and tucking them in at night. When you’re eating, when you’re using the restroom eve,n brushing your teeth, right? What does it look like to mindfully do that? What advice would you have for someone just starting on their journey? Or if they’re listening to this and curious about, Yeah, maybe, maybe that would be valuable for me? Or, or maybe I want to show up more present in my life? Where would you have somebody start?
Allison Peet
Yeah, I would probably start with an app. So I started with Insight Timer. Do you have that one?
Sarah Noll Wilson
I used to, yeah.
Allison Peet
So it’s free. And they have 1000s and 1000s of guided meditations. They have a timer on there that you can, any amount of time and start with a minute, you know, just start start there that I think that just starting small and starting very gently is probably the best. You can even practice going for a mindful walk. You, a lot of us go for walks anyway. What would it be like to not have music in your earbuds or a podcast? This time of year, we’ve had beautiful weather. So maybe getting out into nature, being in nature is really healing. So using your senses, I think that’s a really wonderful way to start is we tend typically lose touch with our senses. And when we’re up in our thinking mind all the time and lost in that like in like a trance. So we all have five senses. So it’s like what am I seeing right now? What’s happening on the soundscape? What am I tasting? What am I feeling? How, where’s my breath? How is it here? Right? So it’s, it’s very simple, that that is an amazing thing of this. Like, the beauty of this practice is in its simplicity. That it’s always with us. We don’t need high tech things. It’s very analog. (laughs) We don’t need special clothing. Or it’s like, it’s just this amazing ability, because we already have it. That’s the cool thing is many people think I need to be mindful, I need to grab something that’s that I don’t have already. And in reality, that’s the cool thing is people find that they already have it. This is more of an uncovering, or a discovering because this is innately human, we already have it. We just, it’s very easy to lose touch with awareness itself.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Oh, 100%. I mean, you just you get it, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s for me, I can tell that I’ve lost, like, I’ve lost my practice a little bit, you know, just if things are really busy or overwhelming. My husband and I, we just were at a friend’s wedding out in California, and we were fortunate to stay at this just beautiful place near the ocean. And just there was something about a different location that was like, Oh, right. This is. Okay. My senses are like, I see you. (laughter) We’re still here Sarah, you know, you’re just forgotten about us.
Allison Peet
Yes.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And, and I love that you, you recommend that – I love that idea of like, start gently. And also, perhaps with some assistance. I know, my journey, I wouldn’t have known how to sit. I wouldn’t have known how, different types of meditations, right. There are so many different ones that I learned and then reinforced with the work with you. And, you know, I’m thinking about my mom, she deals with some chronic knee issues right now until she gets her knee replaced. And she was really struggling sleeping at night.
Allison Peet
Oh, yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And, and I just was like, I want to download the Headspace app for you. And they’ve got some nighttime on so they have some good ones of navigating pain.
Allison Peet
Right.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And now in that case, for her what it did was like put her to sleep. But honestly, that’s what she needed –
Allison Peet
Exactly.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Was just to like, take her focus off of the pain a little bit, just enough for her body to be able to recover. Some was really, really powerful. How you know, in today’s current world, how are you working with clients? Like what does it look like to work with you in your practice now?
Allison Peet
I work both in groups and individually. So I am sitting in my office right now in the East Village. So I work one-on-ones on Fridays here in in my office in the East Village in person. And then I also teach mindfulness spaced stress reduction throughout the year in groups in person as well. Typically, we meet kind of central Des Moines basically.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. Yeah.
Allison Peet
And for – during COVID, I was exclusively online and I’m, I’m kind of getting away from online now. There’s, there’s just really something about being able to look someone in the eye and share space. So yeah, for now, it’s kind of mostly going back into in person classes as well.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. What, when you look at your journey, over the last, almost 10 years of this work, eight years of this work in a much more intentional way. What has surprised you the most?
Allison Peet
(pauses) Oh, let’s see, probably the power of the group, the power of the sweetness, the comfort, the magic. I think that’s the only word I can come up with. The magic of being together in a supportive group environment, or one on one, I think that’s a group too. I think two people are a group too. Of just realizing that we’re not alone. That we’re not alone in this. That is – I’ve heard that over and over again, both with MBSR teachers that I’ve been in contact with, and also people that take my class, they they, they are shocked at the power and the transformation of practicing mindfulness in a group of strangers. That probably, the more I talk about this, that’s probably the most surprising for me is that class one, everyone is super uncomfortable. (laughs) No one knows each other. They’re like looking side by side, you know, like looking out the corners of their eyes, like what am I doing. (laughs) And then by the time we’re done, after eight weeks, they are talking and laughing and they know each other’s kids by name. And they they actually meet up after. I’ve had many groups continue to practice together or to just meet up for coffee. And people are starving for that post COVID, starving for connection. So – and I just I think it’s just creating the space, creating the space and me being more vulnerable too to be like, Hey, I have this too. This is what we’re going to do. And creating the container for people to learn something different about themselves.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. It’s your – we observe that I feel like every day in our work, is just that desire for connection. And there is something, what I really loved about experiencing the group work that I did with you is when everyone is coming to the table, and they’re intentionally working on being curious, and non judgmental, and present, it allows some barriers to drop really, really fast.
Allison Peet
Absolutely.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Because there’s no question of someone’s intentions. There’s no questions like, everyone’s kind of wrestling with it, but they’re all trying to show up for themselves differently, which then just in turn, allows you to show up for other people differently. I, so I love that you’re you’re calling out that group. I hadn’t thought about it. But you’re right. It is. It is very different to do that work in a group format, instead of just by yourself. But by yourself can be incredibly powerful as well.
Allison Peet
Oh, yes. I mean, I took the class by myself looking at a screen.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. (laughter) I read a book off of Amazon with a CD. It was a CD Allison, because it was 2014. I think they barely had downloads. God. Like it hasn’t been that long. But I feel like, (talking in an old lady voice) in my day, I listen to a CD and this. (laughter)
Allison Peet
Yep, exactly. (laughter)
Sarah Noll Wilson
So okay, by the time by the time this episode launches, it, we will be – it’ll probably be like early December.
Allison Peet
Okay.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And so for people who are listening to it when it launches, what, what tips and practices would you want to share with us to help people end the year more mindfully and maybe start the new year more mindfully?
Allison Peet
Okay, so I’m kind of thinking about getting together with family. Right. So I’m going to quote Ram Dass here. And it’s one of my favorite quotes. He’s like, if you think you’re enlightened, go and spend a week with your family. (laughter) Like, yeah, I think I got it. I got it. And then just like all these old habits come back. Right?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. (laughs)
Allison Peet
So there’s one specific, I’ll tell you a technique I think that’s really helpful for me, again, to create that space, so we’re not as reactive. It’s, and it’s specifically holding your breath just for a few seconds at the end of your exhale. So we have our inhale and then have our exhale, and then it turns back into the inhale. Right, thank goodness, it just keeps going. But there’s this little pause in between our breaths, it’s after the exhale, before your inhale, that you just hold your breath at the bottom, like right at that trough for three to five seconds. What this does is helps to elongate the exhale, right? Even when we don’t want or can’t have that long, slow, relaxed, deep breath. This is when we’re in these moments of acute anxiety or stress, and we need to slow things down. So when we have that long, elongated exhale, including holding their breath, at the end of the exhale, that’s telling your body to engage your parasympathetic nervous system, which is like rest and digest. It’s like the brakes on a car. And you have to count the same time. So you’re holding your breath, and you’re counting. So you’re able to get out of the proliferation of thinking and come back into the present moment. So that’s one way that I know that I’ve found that helps me when I’m nervous, speaking in front of groups, or when I need to have a pause before I say something to my child, or my husband or whatever, that it’s more authentic, right? It’s more purposeful. Practices, I would say is just to try to do less. Try to do less, I know that’s hard. This practice is the art of of non doing, it’s called. So this is very different than doing nothing.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.
Allison Peet
It’s, you know, instead of getting, you know, checking your email and trying to get through your email list, is like maybe you go for a walk first. Or maybe you just have a cup of coffee, right? So this is another one, that many people, is very hard. I know it’s very hard. But instead of having your coffee and then doing fifty other things, what you’re doing in the morning, and then your coffee is not hot anymore. What if you get up a little bit earlier, and just have a cup of coffee before your day starts. So it’s that mindful cup of coffee, finding your breath while you’re seated. And just allowing yourself to find those pauses wherever you can, is really really, really helpful.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, it’s, and it’s just as simple as like a single breath can bring you back to present. I really appreciate that practice. I found myself doing it as you were describing it.
Allison Peet
Good. Good.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I’m sure other people are as they’re listening. I was like, oh, yeah, there’s the trough, wait. Okay. Now we can breathe in. And that’s such a gift. I love it. Well, Allison, I’m so proud of everything that you are doing. You have done, I’m so glad we were able to make this conversation happen. And since it’s the first time you’ve been on the show, and we have a little bit of time, I want to ask you the question that we we typically ask most people when we we have a little bit of a space, Allison, in the spirit of the show been about conversations, what’s the conversation you’ve had with yourself, or with someone else that was transformative?
Allison Peet
I would have to say, I’ve had many over the last about year through the Richard Deming Cancer Center. So Dr. Dick Deming invited me to offer one-on-one mindfulness for stress reduction for his patients through his integrative medicine program there, which is completely free for his patients. It’s wonderful. It’s such a wonderful opportunity. And it’s such an honor to be working with him. He is an amazing human being. What I’ve noticed sitting with these people that are facing insurmountable odds, or just a kind of a shift in what they thought about their life was, that has been an, a way to, again, connect with each other as human beings, especially when they’re suffering, in a way that’s helped me grow, because that’s not comfortable for me. It’s not comfortable to sit with someone and they’re suffering like that. So that has been a huge learning and life experience for me to sit with people that have faced a diagnosis such as cancer to be like, am I living the way I want to be living? Every single person that I’ve I’ve sat with has said, this is really shifted the way I talk to myself. It’s shifted the way I’m with my family and my friends. And it’s, that has been a transformational shift for me over the last about a year and a half that I’ve been working with them. Just how thankful I am to have my health. So, and it reminds me. It reminds me to remember to live with as much awareness and curiosity and kindness as possible.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I love that. I adore you.
Allison Peet
Aw, thank you.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Allison, for people who are listening who want to connect with you, who want to learn more about the work that you do or just to get resources. How can people reach out to you?
Allison Peet
Thank you. Yes. So my website is called From Within Wellness, if you just go to From Within Wellness.com. My MBSR page is on there, Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction. There’s actually one that will be coming up, a new new class that’ll start in January. So that’ll be good timing for your people that listen. And I offer that a few times a year, I also offer one-on-ones. And I’ll be offering some, hopefully, a couple half day retreats coming up in 2024. And there will be a pop up, if you go to my website, there’s a pop up for free meditations of mine as well. So there’s three free guided meditations, if people are interested in kind of just understanding what this is.
Sarah Noll Wilson
No, that’s really helpful, because actually, most of our audiences is outside of Iowa.
Allison Peet
Ah, perfect.
Sarah Noll Wilson
A very global, very global audience. And so that’s a really great resource for them to be able to utilize as well. And then potentially, to find practitioners in their area if they’re wanting to find somebody in person to work with, but lots of lots of online options and apps and things like that to get started. Allison, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Allison Peet
Thank you for having me, Sarah, I appreciate it.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Our guest this week has been Allison Peet, and one of the things I’m holding on to is just that really simple practice of pausing and holding your breath a bit when you’re at the end of an exhale. I know that I’ve been moving fast lately. I know my mind has been really busy. And I can tell when I’m getting disconnected from being in the present moment. So that’s a gift I’m going to take with me and really practice that. And I want to hear from you. What resonated for you? What came up for you? Maybe how have you use mindfulness in your world? And you can do so by sending me an email at podcast @ sarahnollwilson.com. You can also shoot me a message on social media where my DMs are always open, but I’m particularly active on LinkedIn. And if you haven’t already, please be sure to rate, review and subscribe to the show on your preferred podcast platform. This helps us get exposure and continue to bring on great guests like Allison. And if you’d like to financially support the show, you can do so by becoming a patron. You can go to patreon.com/conversations on conversations where your financial support will go directly to the team that makes this show possible and you get access to some pretty great swag as well.
Speaking of the team A big thank you to the incredible team that makes this show possible. To Nick Wilson, our producer, to Drew Noll, our sound editor, to Becky Reinert, our transcriptionist, Jessica Burdg, our marketing consultant and the rest of the SNoWCo crew. Thank you. And just a big final thank you to Allison. It was really great to connect after all of these years. This has been Conversations on Conversations. Thank you all so much for listening. And remember, when we can change the conversations we have with ourselves and others, we can change the world. So stay safe, my friends, please be sure to rest, rehydrate and we’ll see you again next week.
Sarah Noll Wilson is on a mission to help leaders build and rebuild teams. She aims to empower leaders to understand and honor the beautiful complexity of the humans they serve. Through her work as an Executive Coach, an in-demand Keynote Speaker, Researcher, Contributor to Harvard Business Review, and Bestselling Author of “Don’t Feed the Elephants”, Sarah helps leaders close the gap between what they intend to do and the actual impact they make. She hosts the podcast “Conversations on Conversations”, is certified in Co-Active Coaching and Conversational Intelligence, and is a frequent guest lecturer at universities. In addition to her work with organizations, Sarah is a passionate advocate for mental health.