In the final episode of the year, Sarah Noll Wilson and guest Dr. Teresa Peterson reflect on their most important lessons learned and the themes they saw emerge through their work in 2022.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Sarah Noll Wilson
Hello and welcome to this week’s episode of Conversations on Conversations where each week we explore a topic to help us have more meaningful conversations with ourselves and with each other. I’m your host, Sarah Noll Wilson and joining me today is our good friend, Dr. Teresa Peterson. For those of you who have listened to some of our previous episodes, you’re familiar with her. For those of you who haven’t, I’ll do just a brief introduction. Dr. Teresa Peterson is my colleague, partner in crime, researcher. She’s director of learning and development for our organization and we work very closely together with our clients, and she’s just generally an amazing person. So, Teresa, (laughs) welcome to the show.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Wow, thanks. Yeah, I’m feeling great now. (laughter) Nice to see ya, Sarah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s good to see you again, it’s been um, you know, it’s been it’s been 24 hour – less than 24 hours since we saw each other.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Such a long time. (laughter)
Sarah Noll Wilson
What we’re, we’re excited to come come to you all, because this is going to be our last episode of the year. And, you know, what we thought we would do is in the spirit of year and reflection, hibernation, thinking about the next year, that we would just do a reflection wrap up and talk about a little bit about strategies for how we can reflect more thoughtfully but also why it’s really valuable – share with you some strategies that we use with the clients that we support in any event and on our own team. And then we’re going to spend some time just reflecting, reflecting on air with all of you of some of the lessons that we’ve learned throughout the year. So that’s, that’s what we’re going to explore today. So, in the spirit of reflection, you know, it’s important, for lots of reasons, you know, and our work, we’ve created the model of perpetual learning, and we use this for our clients, we use this with our clients, we use this internally. And so I’ll turn it over to you, Teresa, to talk with the audience. Because I think this is the first time we’ve actually shared this model. And specifically, why, you know, we’re in the season of the third phase, so to speak, but I’ll let you speak to the model of perpetual.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah, so, you know, something that Sarah and I encountered individually and with groups is, they would talk about learning in kind of generic terms, sometimes. Or just we’re always learning and or the learning often fall short, we can’t incorporate the learning. And so we wanted to make it more concrete for people, how learning and how larger scale change, and by larger scale change, I mean, could be organizationally and even individually, but how a big change occurs, and is sustained. And so there are three phases in the model of perpetual learning. So we’ve got the first phase of exploring. Taking a good temperature on, what do we know, what don’t we know? What’s working? Maybe what isn’t working? What are we curious about? Where do we want to grow? Where do we think we need to grow? All those types of questions. Which is a great phase. And, and I will say, – and Sarah, you chime in on this too – a phase that people often want to shortcut. They assume they know exactly what they need, they want to skip over that exploration and skipping over it means we can apply the wrong solution to – you know the problem and solution are mismatched or we don’t we know, one piece of an issue or a need and not, you know, a more cohesive – what else do you want to say about exploring or exploration before?
Sarah Noll Wilson
No, I’m actually really glad that you you brought up that point that people people jump to assumptions and conclusions. And, you know, we especially when I say we live in a culture, I’m speaking American, you know, Western hustle culture, that we don’t always value not knowing, –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Oh yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
and the time it takes to see what we know, and what we don’t know. And we often will see, you know, either individuals or companies not feel like they’re doing something until they’ve put the plan together, right? Like, I’m not growing until I’ve completed my development plan that the company is asking me to fill out. We are not changing until we’ve created our strategy. And this you know, this comes from the work of appreciative inquiry that we both love and have adopted is the idea that our questions are fateful. The minute we start asking questions, we change and so I you know, as you were talking that’s what was coming up for me is that we don’t always value slowing down enough and realize that the minute we start asking questions we actually are changing, we are learning, we are growing.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah, thank you for that. The second phase is experimentation. Where we – after we’ve got this handle on where we need to go, and the problem is kind of right sized, or we have a more clear focus, we can experiment with some solutions or some strategies. And again, I love this part, because I feel like life is a bit of an experimentation in of itself, right. And sometimes what works one day doesn’t quite work the next. And, you know, common things that happen in this phase are some people are really excited about trying new things. And every once in a while, people are very reluctant to try new things, or they think it means throwing everything out and starting from scratch, instead of really honing in on those pieces that could be retooled to make things more effective, more enjoyable, more efficient, all of the things that we want in our work. And then the last phase is evolving, and taking cues from the questions that living beings in nature ask themselves. What do I want to hold on to? What do I want to let go of? And what do I need to create new or differently? Which can lead us right back to exploring again. And this, you know, not only is that kind of intentional reflection with an eye for growth, one of the most important elements of learning. It seems like a natural fit for this time of year, right? We’ve had a lot of clients who are looking at wrapping up the year and kind of assessing themselves all over again, thinking about what’s changed over the course of the year, what they’d like to see new or different. So this is just a natural time to focus on evolution. So here we are.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Well, and the thing with evolution is that it’s an intentional practice. It isn’t an unintentional thing that just happens. Right? So I want to clarify that. Because we can experience things and maybe be changed a little bit by it. But we can be changed significantly by it when we take time to reflect and go, “How have I changed because of that? What did I learn? What did surprise me? What came up for me? What was that experience like? How am I thinking differently?” We’ll talk about why that question is really, really powerful for us to ask. And again, when we think about this in a corporate setting, reflection almost never gets the time, because it’s not, it doesn’t feel profitable, it doesn’t feel efficient. It doesn’t, you know, we’ve worked with teams are like, “Oh, you’re gonna have us reflect?” We had that come up recently, like, gotta be honest, when you said we’re gonna spend, you know, time reflecting I was like, ah f-! (laughter) And I think that it feels, it can feel inefficient. But again, just like, if we don’t take time to explore, we can solve the wrong problems. If we don’t take time to evolve, we can keep creating the same problems.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah,
Sarah Noll Wilson
Right? We can just continue and not and not reflect. The other thing is practicing this individually, and especially practicing this as a team is part of what can create that safety, that psychological safety, because people can offer different perspectives. They can say, “Ah, I know, you thought that went well, from our perspective, that actually we had a very different experience with that,” and we can expand our perspectives. And think of that cycle of explore, experiment, evolve, and why it’s so important, but so often missed. Like, we just want to jump to the action – we feel – because I’m sure there’s dopamine hits. There’s lots of reasons why that feels so good to our brain. So one of the things that we will talk a lot about is that metathinking, right, the thinking about your thinking, and you know, this shows up in our work that anytime we do any workshop or learning experience, we have people reflect using the tool, “I used to think now I think” and talk to us a little bit Teresa about why that metathinking is such an important practice and part of being a learning person and creating a learning culture.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah, so when you think about all learners and how the brain learns, and particularly adult learners, metacognition, that thinking about your thinking is one of the highest value things you can do. When you think about the most effective instructional practices that’s in the top 10 forever, (laughs) it’s never going away. When we are learning – you know there’s we could go so many paths here – but one thing that’s coming to mind that resonates with people is that as we’re taking in new information during the day, when we’re awake, our mind essentially put sticky notes in there. And at night, it says, “These seem real important. These don’t seem very important,” right? Because we don’t have unlimited capacity for sticky notes with new ideas. Part of the function of thinking about our thinking and thinking about – I’m gonna say, thinking about how your thinking has shifted, is to not only when you’re conscious kind of take stock of, “Wow, a shift has occurred in me,” modeling for others who might look up to you. Who might want to partner with you like, oh, it’s okay to say our thinking has shifted, right. So in terms of psychological safety, that’s a huge boost. So when we’re conscious, we’re becoming aware of how our thinking has changed. And then when we’re unconscious when we’re sleeping. And our mind is pruning, which it has to do to survive, calling attention to what we want to hold on to clues our brain and that that’s important that those stickies belong, that we don’t want to lose those. So, you know, I lovingly say, so the stickies I hope I lose tonight were like the library books were overdue. You know, the car needs a char – right, some of those stickies, I’m very content to lose. But there are big ones that I need to hold on to, right. And so the act of thinking about it, vocalizing it, benefits you in multiple ways and translates to the team. And by team, I mean, the people you work with all the time, your family, how you might be a model for a sibling, that you are someone who can grow and change and evolve.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Well said. That could be a practice you do, as you think about this last year – like as I think over the last year, I used to think, X, Y and Z. And now I think X, Y and Z. We’ll model this as we share our reflections and get into it, because there’s lots of ways – I used to think (laughter) this, and now I really think this. Another tool that we want to share with you just again, from the standpoint of ease of how to reflect, because sometimes it can be overwhelming of where do I start? You know, you may look at specific areas. So for example, we’ve created three main buckets that we wanted to reflect on. What were lessons we learned from our clients? What were lessons we’ve learned from each other and how we’re doing our work? Then just what are some personal lessons we’ve learned over the last year?
Three questions that we often use with teams. – this can be used at the end of a project this can be used – this can be used at the end of a vacation, right? Any kind of experience. where you’re wanting to intentionally evolve is, what do I want to hold on to? Or what do we want to hold on to? What do we want to let go of? And what do we want to do new or differently next time? And it’s a way to, again, identify this was important. This was something that happened that I’d rather it wouldn’t happen again. Or maybe it’s just like, we didn’t need that, you know, we probably didn’t need 20 dessert. (laughter) So we could probably let that go next Thanksgiving. –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
And just go with 15. (laughter)
Sarah Noll Wilson
And just go with 15, especially for my family, like 15 is probably enough. And what I want to do new or differently, you know, I think that’s what I love about year end is there is this sort of natural hibernation that’s happening and with like, the smallest amount of and what do I want next year, right? Even though it’s another day, there is something mental, there’s a mental shift that happens of a new slate and okay, what are we going to do?
Dr. Teresa Peterson
The beauty of those questions is that I know, for folks, reflection can sound like this amorphous thing. It just like, what do I need to – get out of blanket and sit down and just clear my mind? Like, nope. I mean, you certainly could reflect in that way. But this is a great framework for bringing people together bringing your own thoughts together so that it feels so abstract to folks, these are very concrete questions you can focus on.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah. And it doesn’t have to take a lot of time. That’s the other thing I think people think, oh, reflection, you know, like you said, I need to be in the mood. I need to be in the zone. I need to – and maybe –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Budget three hours.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Right. And there’s something great about having space.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah, I’m not knocking it.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And, I mean, we’ve been working with our clients and it’s, just take five minutes and think about yourself as a leader and think about the last year. Five minutes. Those five minutes seems significant because we almost never give ourselves even that.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah. So true.
Sarah Noll Wilson
So there’s power that even just setting a timer on your phone or your kitchen egg timer, or whatever, for five minutes, and just answering the questions. What do I want to hold on to relate it to being a leader, related to being a parent, related to being a spouse, related to being a – insert whatever that is? What do I want to let go of? And what do I want to do differently? Because again, our questions are fateful. So the minute we ask ourselves questions, or we ask other people questions, change starts to happen. Me writing it down on a piece of paper, does not guarantee that change will necessarily happen, it will help reinforce but it’s not the only way.
All right, so in the spirit of reflection, Teresa and I want to share with you and we haven’t we haven’t shared this together. So we’re going to be hearing live, you know, what are the – you got your notes? (laughs)
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yes, I do have some notes.
Sarah Noll Wilson
We’re going to talk about just what are some of the lessons that we’ve learned working with the amazing clients that we’ve had a chance to partner with being part of the conversations. It’s one of the things that we don’t take for granted is we get this beautiful, almost sacred view, of multiple teams every year, and we get a chance to learn. So I’m going to turn it over to you, Teresa, for one of your first, what did you learn? How are you thinking differently? What insights have you gained from our client work?
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Something I have seen repeatedly this year, and I think is evolving over the last couple of years, but I’ve seen this year, and that has pushed me is thinking about this idea of applying old rules to the new game. We’ve seen that play out in lots of ways, whether that’s what the people who work in the organization want or need or expect. Whether that’s what the industry that is being serviced, or the need that’s being met by that company has evolved. And I’ve seen that and myself. And again, recently, like I’m applying the logic that was pre-COVID, or pre fill in the blank to now. And I think the shift that’s occurring in me in like, what, what is the problem with that, essentially, long term is that when we’re applying the old rules to the new game, we’re completely missing the creation, we’re completely missing the possibility because we just keep going in this direction of how it was. And we’re skipping over how it is or how it could be. We’re investing too much energy in how it was, getting back to. I mean, goodness, Sarah, how many 1000s of times this year that we probably (laughs) getting back to –
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, we want to get back to.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah, and –
Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s a great point.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
And the spirit of these questions that we were framing up earlier, something we could want to create new or different is a behavior or a feeling that we honor about how we used to be, but the idea that you’re going to come in and punch your card – I mean society, and time itself, don’t go that direction. So that’s something that’s become really clear for me over the last year, and pushing myself to think where am I applying that logic? Where am I focused on trying to get back to something that literally does not exist? And instead of thinking about what are the parts of that I want to move forward with, –
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
create new or differently, and go on a different trajectory.
Sarah Noll Wilson
This is, and this is, folks, this is why it’s so valuable to take some time to reflect and if you have people to share it with or if you can do it as a team, is because not only does it reinforce it for the individual, but it reinforces it for the person listening and I’m sitting here going, right. That was such a consistent pattern. And that wasn’t on my list. But now I’m thinking about it, and it’s on my brain and you all listening may be going oh man, I hadn’t thought about that. Then so there’s power in that. But that whole getting back to really was a phrase. We want to get back to x and –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yes.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And hearing you talk makes me think even for ourselves right in this moment when we’re in those conversations. Asking the question, “So what what was it about that specifically?” So instead of thinking that is success, but what was it about that that you valued, or what did you get from that? You know, because it – we’ve talked a lot about remote work and navigating hybrid work and there’s a lot of, “I want to get back to the energy in the office.” And there’s an assumption there that the only way you can have energy is in person.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Right.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And, you know, we largely don’t work together in person.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Right.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And we have a fast and furious group chat that can get really energetic, sometimes. (laughter)
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Lots of energy.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I love that. Old rules to a new game is beautiful. All right, one, right, you’re ready. Okay, this, this, I think I knew this imprinted on my brain the minute it happened. And, and I’ve also brought it up multiple times so I’ve gotten reinforcement. But as people know, we’re really passionate about helping people – helping leaders people better, and specifically, just helping humans have stronger, better relationships and communicate more effectively. And we are working with a leadership team, introducing some of the concepts. And during the “I used to think now, I think,” you’ll know where I’m going now. One of the leaders said, “I used to think that people who are good at building relationships were good because of their personality. And now I think it’s because they were willing. And I remember seeing that come across the screen and just having this Oof. Yeah. And, and that lesson has permeated through multiple layers for me. One, it’s reinforced the passion that I have for the work we do, and how do we continue to give people really tactical tools to make things that feel so abstract, more concrete. But for me, it – I’m reflecting on, essentially, where, where am I willing? And where have I not been willing? And where am I okay that I’m not willing, you know, because that’s something as you and I have talked about, as people pleasing Midwest women, nurturing, taking care of others, setting boundaries can be really difficult. And, and so that, that idea of it really is about being willing. And I have found myself in situations in my own personal life, wanting to be even more intentional, of, I want to, I really want to make this work. So I’m going to be willing, and not just willing, but like, I’m going to be really intentional about having the conversations I want to or approaching this differently or speaking up or whatever the case might be. But that, that is something that I just remember when it happened was phew, I’ll never forget that. So one, I want to thank the leader who shared it. So wherever she is, thank you for that gift. And that that is something that has really stuck with me.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
That was an extremely meaningful moment. And just put a period at the end of the sentence so beautifully of what I feel like we’ve experienced over and over but had never said in such a succinct, beautiful, like, tangible way. So, you know, and as, as people are listening, or you’re thinking about, yeah, what relationships might I need to be more willing to develop? And which ones am I okay not to?
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
I love that. This is just a beautiful piggyback off of yours. But I feel like there were a lot of folks this year, again, in our very front row seat to these special moments of learning who it appeared genuinely understood the value of relationships for the first time.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
I feel like that was something we hadn’t seen so pervasive in the past. You know, most people, if nothing else paid lip service to how important they thought it was. (laughs)
Sarah Noll Wilson
Right, right.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
I feel like this year we saw a real evolution of folks. Maybe because of the turnover they’d experienced. Maybe because of how hard people had to work bringing new people into their organization. Could be any number of things. Those are a couple that have come to my mind, but that folks were really understanding the value of the relationships in regards to how work is accomplished, that it is not a feel good add on on the side, but that it is essential to how you will accomplish the goals of your team, of your organization. And that felt like a very profound shift for a lot of folks this year.
Sarah Noll Wilson
You’re right, there was a lot of, I hadn’t thought about that. Or I understand now why that situation didn’t go well. Or realizing that they aren’t spending enough time nurturing the relationship and understanding it. It’s, you know, somewhat connected. And, and, you know, in some of this was more recent, but I think in a similar vein, as we have danced more into speaking more explicitly about conflict, hearing more folks and seeing more people recognize how important and necessary and natural and quite frankly, inevitable conflict is in a relationship. And so the aha for you know, there’s lots of lessons learned. But I think, similarly to seeing people having that moment of oh, relationships are really important. When we see so many people go, I never, – I always thought conflict was bad.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I mean, how many times did we hear or get feedback or see on the, you know, Mentimeter slide, I always thought conflict was bad. And therefore, I did X, Y, and Z, right? Usually, I avoided it, or I fought really hard in it. And, and so, you know, one, just being aware of – that we’re all coming to relationships at different places, with different understandings, with different beliefs, with different values, with different rules. Right, and, and seeing how prevalent it was for folks sharing that they just always thought it was bad, it was really eye opening. Like not, I wasn’t surprised. But it was a really good reminder of where, you know, again, where some of the people are that we get the opportunity to work with. And that’s a reminder for, you know, myself as I am working to be more comfortable with conflict, as I am working to step into more direct or candid conversations, to just have that space and grace for where someone else is. And then and then the the addition to that, and you know, this is coming from the work that you just did recently, and all that really great feedback that we heard from folks of I use to think that in a time of conflict, my job was to be right, or my job was to advocate my beliefs and how many people were having the realization of now I realize it’s my job to listen and to learn. And, and that was just really, it was moving. It was insightful. And, you know, and again, a good reminder of how can I continue to show up in those moments? How do I continue to listen more? How do I continue to navigate the conflict instead of avoiding it? Or right, how do I step into the heat, but that I think as I’m ending the year, and there’s some recency bias in here, just because of some of the recent sessions we’ve done, you know, because some of it the first half of the year feels a bit like a blur, a blur to me. (laughter) But just just that reminder, of, – I think, just, you know, like, as I’m talking out this out loud is, again, that reminder that, like no, none of us know all things, none of us – we’re always learning and we’re always growing. And there’s something really beautiful about witnessing those moments of, huh, I hadn’t thought about that. You know?
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah. I agree with you completely. People sharing and I wondered how many folks have that belief, right, that conflict is inherently bad, and should be and by avoided at all costs, you know, and I’m, I’m kind of dramatizing it, but avoiding, avoiding conflict through avoidance or through dominating another person so that there’s not an opportunity to even have a dialogue or discourse about something. And I agree with you that it’s – an you know, it’s funny, because every once in a while, after a session, someone will say, I’m the one who shared that, I hope you’re not judging. And, you know, I am a believer and like, if you judge people, you have no room to love them. But also like, we’re here for the learning experience. We are here to invoke learning in other people. So I, I guess I’m sharing that in the in the spirit of I don’t think there’s anything that we’ve heard, related to shifting and thinking that has has prompted anyone to judge what has been said. I think it’s beautiful awareness. I love people’s honesty. And saying, I used to think if there was a conflict, I had to win at all costs.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Well, uff da you know, that’s going to shift how, how this whole conversation is going to go right. Like, that’s, that’s good personal self awareness. So yeah, I there’s, – we heard a lot more about how people conceptualize conflict this year than we’ve heard in the past. And maybe, you know, and here’s us reflecting on it. Maybe we did a better job of asking? Maybe that’s why we heard about it. (laughs)
Sarah Noll Wilson
Right. Or making it safer. I mean, that’s what I was like, yeah, maybe there’s things we did to make it safer for people to share or you know, or whatever the case might be. Do you have anything else from a client perspective? I have, I do have a bonus one, and you’re going to love it.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Oh, now I have to go there. There’s been a bonus.
Sarah Noll Wilson
One of the things that’s been an evolution for us is, as we’ve been clear about the work we do, we have attracted clients who want to do that kind of work. And we have opportunities weekly sometimes where we get to sit, and just listen and learn from these incredible people that have reached out to us for our help. And sometimes we leave – I mean, we always leave different we always leave better. But I wasn’t even a part of this conversation.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Oh, yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
(Laughs)
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Let’s see if I know where this is going. I don’t know.
Sarah Noll Wilson
You know, but there are times when how people will talk – and well, even just recently, I was talking with a leader who said, “I want people to just have better, like, understand how to play on the playground better with each other.” And there was something really like, charming and beautiful about that.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
(Laughs) I love that.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And, you know, and –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
We all know what that means to don’t we?
Sarah Noll Wilson
And like it was funny, because I said, but I want to hear what it means to you, and in the context of your organization. And so sometimes there’s this beautiful gift of language, but also mindsets and perspectives. And, you know, we have the opportunity to work with this one leader, who shared with Teresa and Amy, how he works really hard every day – the thing he thinks about most often is how to reduce harm in the workplace. And that was so inspiring to hear an executive leader share and the language and it you know, it was inspiring. And also, it can’t help it give you pause to think about, boy, what could be possible, if we had more people in positions of power and authority, thinking about this, and genuinely thinking about, not lip service, but genuinely genuinely thinking about, you know, and to be even more specific without revealing information. But, you know, followed up with, there’s a lot of suffering in the world, and people wake up and they’re suffering and struggling, and I don’t want work to be that place. And you know, that is a moment of aspiration, I feel like. For myself personally as a leader and for the work that we get to do with with other other humans. So that was one that I felt needed to be shared, because I was just so – it was so provocative for us to hear that.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
It was and you know, it’s funny, it came up with our colleague, Amy yesterday, we, you know, kind of invoked that phrase again in that spirit and we’re sharing how it was still lingering. You know how we were both independently still thinking about it. So that was a real gift this year. For sure.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, reducing harm. All right, so speaking of the team, let’s talk about lessons we’ve learned running and growing this business and growing in roles and (laughs) –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Ah yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And learning how to run a business and (laughter) all the things – I got, I got – my list is long, but I’ll keep it to two.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Okay, you start go ahead. I’m enjoying this.
Sarah Noll Wilson
So one of the things that I’ve really worked on, is trying to identify when my stress hits a tipping point into spiraling. When, as a smart woman once said in the session, is it ruminating? Or is it reflecting? That was Teresa by the way.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
I remember that woman. (laughs)
Sarah Noll Wilson
And I’m noticing – you know, that woman, (laughs) and, and noticing – trying to catch it before it spirals, because you know, this was a year, I’ll share, I’ll share candidly, that this was a year of really high highs professionally, right. Book launch, podcast, opportunities to be in Harvard, and Forbes, and all of that, and some of the great work that you know, some of the amazing clients and it also was really difficult. You know, from the standpoint of stretching myself to better understand the business side of things better understand business development, realizing that we had taken our eye off of that for a little bit while investing in this other stuff, cause definitely caused some pain the first half of the year that I would rather not experience again, but may have to. And so the lesson that I am trying to hold on to or I am holding on to, I’m not trying I am is one, noticing when that turns into ruminating. And then my rule now is who do I reach out to who can help me either clarify, validate, encourage whatever the case is, because that that’s a skill I learned navigating my panic disorder. For example, I know that if I get into a rumination around anxiety, the first thing that I need to do, or one of the things that I know helps is talking it out loud with Nick, or even just if I’m with somebody. If we were traveling and I experienced a panic attack or something to that nature, to be able to say, hey, Teresa I’m feeling some anxiety right now speaking it out, I know is really helpful. But I never applied that to the business stress. And that was something my therapist helped me understand is how do we apply that to the business stress? Like who are your people that you can go hey, this was a – I’m struggling with this. I don’t understand this or whatever the case is. So that’s been a big – that’s been a game changing lesson that I’ve learned is to notice when it moves from reflection to ruminating and know that my interruption is to seek out someone who can – and it’s not anyone. I’m not shouting down the street. Hey! But being really intentional about who I seek out whether it’s my lawyer to talk about strategy, whether it’s my accountant, my financial advisor, business mentor, whoever it might be, that’s, that’s been a game changer.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah, that you know, something else that’s coming up for me and being that you are the owner, the leader, what we see in others is feeling they need to bear that burden that they should have all the answers that they that they want to insulate other people from the stress of it, and that that usually –
Sarah Noll Wilson
Doesn’t go well. (laughs)
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Never Sarah, I’m trying to not use this polarizing language – have never been – I am not aware –
Sarah Noll Wilson
Rarely?
Dr. Teresa Peterson
I’ve never been in a situation where that’s been effective, you know, and so I think that’s a beautiful a beautiful learning and you know, an invitation to folks to – the people on your team again, whether that’s your expanded team, lawyer, accountant or work close to home are there you know that you don’t need to figure it all out bear the burden on your own. Yeah, I think that’s that feels important. It feels important.
It can feel lonely, but it doesn’t have to. Like you don’t have to be alone.
Yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I think it’s the the lesson for –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
What do you got?
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Um, something I was thinking about that I’ve been pushing myself on lately too, is like, when is it – when is it best that you and I go together and when is it best so that we go alone, right. And I feel like that’s been something the whole year, that’s been kind of an evolution or a work in progress. And, and in the spirit of the work we do, and probably needs to be discussed again, as we think about turning this calendar page to a new year and new work and, and new ways of working together of when is it better together? When, when is it– I’m hesitant to say better apart, because that isn’t what I mean. But like, most effective. It could be, could be better in terms of – I’m thinking about times, we’ve gone separate ways to deliver events and come back with even more data than we would have gathered independently. So like being really strategic about that. That’s something that I’ve taken away from this year. And what to think more proactively about again, as we just – always retooling? Yeah. So that’s where I’m at with how things have shifted and how I’m eyeing the future.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, well, that also speaks to leaning into what recharges us or energizes us? What’s the work we really like to do? And, and there is – in just a business element of, it’s not always effective – it’s always going to be effective for us to be together, it won’t always be efficient, and profitable for us to be together just to speak.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Just feasible on a lot of levels.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Candidly, and, and to that end, though, that’s a huge celebration for us is that we are now at a point in our evolution as a company, your evolution in your role, my evolution in my mindset around who does the work? How does the work happen? It felt like a substantial release this year of possibilities of, oh, I actually don’t have to be the one doing that. I might not actually want to do that work. (laughs) Or I’m not the best person for that anymore. And I think that’s exciting, because it opens up a lot of new possibilities, not only for our clients, but also for ourselves. And, and I think you’re right, it’ll only continue to grow.
You know something that related that when I when I think about something I’m really proud of this year, all of our relationships, but in particular, you and I, from the standpoint of how many times we’ve been in a session, working together and just being Teresa and Sarah, and not just but doing our thing. And how many times people will stop and comment on how we’re working together, how we’re pushing back on each other, how we’re co-creating in the moment together. And you know, on some level it’s critical because it’s the work we do so, you know, hopefully we yeah, we figure that out. But I don’t – it’s something that I don’t – I think it’s been really easy for me to take that for granted because it’s been such an evolution and one – so one of the things that I’m chewing on is as we grow as a company, how can – and we bring on other facilitators or we introduce other coaches, how are we intentional about that, since you have been part of the journey from ground up? I mean, fairly close six months. I mean, you missed –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah,
Sarah Noll Wilson
six months of chaos, but you got a good year and a half too (laughter) until we figured our shit out.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
I would say I’ve been missing it. (laughter) I’m just teasing, I couldn’t resist.
Sarah Noll Wilson
But I think that – I mean, that’s something I’m really proud of – don’t want to take for granted and want to make sure we’re very intentional as we expand our partners, our contractors, our team members over the next couple of years because you know, it does – it does take an intentionality but it’s you know, on some level it feels like a bigger compliment to me. Someone saying you’re a great facilitator feels good, but somebody’s saying wow, the two of you have such a high level of trust just feels like on a whole other level. So that’s something that I and I know internally we have that with Amy, we have that with our other partners we work with and and continue to, to work on that though. I just feel really, really fortunate and don’t want to take that for granted. So thank you.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Thank you. Yeah, not sad about that. Beautiful, –
Sarah Noll Wilson
Period.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah, period. (chuckles) I have also felt like – something I’ve seen in the team that has been really powerful is our willingness to not constantly reevaluate because that’s too disruptive, but routinely evaluate what’s working, what isn’t working so well. What, you know, for example, and I, I’m laughing because this was a great moment of Amy and I, we were working on getting something ready for a client. And we were, you know, she said, “Do you feel like you’re ready to take this part and go?” And I said, “Yes.” And then she said, “What do you need for me?” And I said, nothing. Standard kind of default. And I was like, “Wait, after I type the content, will you format this?”
Sarah Noll Wilson
(laughs)
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Because I would rather scoop kitty litter than format a document. I hate formatting documents. (laughter) But, so we have this beautiful awareness of like, I don’t have an eye for it. I don’t – formatting things – I just, I don’t mean to be like, well –
Sarah Noll Wilson
And the online program sucks and that makes it difficult.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, Amy, this is what I know about me. I, I would rather scoop kitty litter than do this stuff. And she was just like, wow, like, if we’re comparing any work tasks to a litter box, like, it doesn’t bother me that much, you know, and I was like, well, what can we what can we swap? Right? Like, I’m not just gonna leave you hanging with this. But –
Sarah Noll Wilson
See, I love formatting. Like, there’s something about it that I just, it’s so helpful for my brain, right? Don’t ask me to review it for spelling errors or anything, but I can make it look consistent and visually organized.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Oh, yeah. So that’s something I feel like as we think about ti– you know, because I know, there’s that balance, right? There’s that balance of who does it make sense – who does this? Right? And is this gonna take me two hours and you 10 minutes? Because also there’s that, you know, or like, what are the things that would take you a huge chunk that wouldn’t take my brain so long. So I feel like that’s a great kind of evolution. Because again, it’s a it’s a small team, you know, you wear a lot of hats on a small team, but it was, it was maybe one of the first times in my working life, I had expressed not only a need, or hey, I will take you up on that. And then and let me just put in perspective, how this feels to me. And so kudos to her for not being like what a whiner you know, like, of all things –
Sarah Noll Wilson
That’s below my paygrade but –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah, yeah. So kudos to her for being like, I can see how important this is to you. (laughs)
Sarah Noll Wilson
That’s, you know, we talked about calibration and commitment, you know, making commitments, but also just that, it again, it may not work in all situations, but it is just having each other’s back. Leaning and turning towards each other. And, and, and again, us stretching to say I actually do need help with this. I think that we’ve had a lot more moments. You know, as I’m saying that out loud. I’m thinking back to February. Seymour got put down on Friday, my dog. I had a huge event on Wednesday, huge. Opening keynote, closing keynote, breakout in between. And the keynotes were fine, but the breakout I hadn’t – because I thought I’d have all weekend is sort of finalized and and I remember you and I were meeting about it. And I said I just I need your – I just need you to help me kind of put this together. And like whatever I can do to help and then I remember you though, kept pushing in the sense of what what would actually remove stress from your brain right now. And it was really hard for me to say what I actually needed, which was, would you be willing to come and co-facilitate this with me because I don’t know that I’ll have the mental energy and the emotional energy and the physical energy to do an all day thing? Because I was still so exhausted, emotionally exhausted and raw. And you just said, Yep. And then not only did you say, yep, you crushed it, because I was delayed on the booksigning. And you just took it over. And that was actually, that was such an – I mean, what a beautiful moment of a turning point on multiple levels, because it was the first time you had facilitated that content. It was the first time you had facilitated with a room that large. And it was the first time you had facilitated without me. And I remember walking in late, and it was such a magical moment of, I’m just gonna sit back and watch Teresa do this. The audience resonated, they loved you, you were – you owned it, you’re in it. So what I love about that story, on multiple levels, is that in the moment of asking, and in the moment of either asking for what you need, or asking, like, what do you really need, we discovered and unlocked a whole new playing field that maybe would have taken us longer to get to had had there not been that willingness. And, and not just you asking it, but at that point, our relationship, and our team dynamic was continuing to evolve to, no I think I can actually answer this honestly, this isn’t lip service. This isn’t what can I do for you, but I really don’t want to do anything for you. And I’m reflecting that was such a beautiful moment. You know, I even was joking in the audience of I’m just gonna, Teresa is doing her thing. So I’ll be back here if you want to ask questions after but such a proud, proud parent moment, almost. A proud, proud company owner moment. And, yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up because I’d forgotten about that. That moment for us in February and reflecting on – that was a really linchpin moment.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
In multiple ways that I don’t think I realized at the time until I’m saying this out loud right now.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Well, yeah. No, I’m agreeing, as I’m kind of replaying it. There’s something in there about – well, and I think what led me to keep pushing is I was like, I don’t think we’re at base truth yet.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
I don’t think she’s really, – I think, I just don’t think we’re there. If there was just something in the way, we’re like, nah, I can. I was just, I could feel it. You know, I was just like, I’m going to ask about seven more times.
Sarah Noll Wilson
You did. And it was like, can you, can you just help me with the outline? But what else would actually – can you just create the outline? What else? Can you help me with the PowerPoint?
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And you just kept pushing. And then I was just, I need somebody to hold the stage with me. And I need to know that if I can’t, you’re there. And that was such a – I’m so grateful for you in that moment. I hadn’t –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Oh, thanks.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I hadn’t reflected about it. That was a – and then what I loved was – Now folks, this is just Theresa and Sarah just reflecting. But I loved at the end of it. Letting the audience know, less than 24 hours ago, –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
It was touching.
Sarah Noll Wilson
You know, Teresa has never facilitated this. She stepped in. Like that was – that was really, really beautiful. Okay, we need to keep moving. Because we could talk all day and we can’t. Alright, personal. These are, these are juicy. So I’m going to intentionally keep them a little little less juicy. And we could explore them further.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Okay.
Sarah Noll Wilson
But I started last time, you start –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
I just have one big one. vaguely.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Okay. And I might share a similar one. So alright, give the one big one.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
So my juicy – kind of the big one I’m thinking about is – this ongoing realization about the importance of evolution. For me as an individual, Teresa, the person. Not Teresa, the worker, or Teresa, the mom, whatever, but like Teresa, the person because a few years ago, I went through this phase of just feeling – my soul just felt kind of unsettled. I was like, something isn’t quite right here. And I’ve been experiencing that again lately. And I and before I pushed it down, I didn’t want to think about about it. I didn’t. – I was like, there are enough things in the right place that I should just keep marching forward, right. And then I reached a point where my body was like, we’re gonna have to get your attention in other ways, would you like to have terrible heartburn that sustain – like it was a message of like, if I don’t listen, things are gonna get louder. And so and then the funny slash not funny kind of metaphor of all of this was getting hit by a sheep last week, and literally feeling very unsettled. And so I feel like as a person I think I want to put everything back on the table. This is not about work, work is going very well, just so everyone listening is clear by everyone –
Sarah Noll Wilson
Okay, I’m not gonna lie. There’s – my amygdalus is trigger and a little bit like, are we going to be having a conversation about like – No, thank you for clarifying. I mean, folks, is what it like, looks like to make assumptions. And you’re trying to hold steady, and you’re like, do I need to be worried? Do I – no continue. You can talk all you want, now that I can release that. (laughs)
Dr. Teresa Peterson
No, it’s not about work. But just like how I spend the rest of my time, I guess I’d word it that way like, – and it’s normal to go through phases where one part feels real good. Another part doesn’t, right? So I’m not I’m not glossing over that. But, you know, how am I spending my time outside of work, to replenish to recharge, and, and I say this with love, because I know we get this and not for the purposes of being a better worker, –
Sarah Noll Wilson
Right.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
For the purposes of being a fulfilled person, right. And so I think, and some people listening probably have lived this phase. And I think this was kind of the core of where it is, but the phase where you’ve become a taxi, the phase where an incredible amount of your day is spent driving people places, and so many things that you would enjoy just keep getting shoved to the side. And it was, it was beautiful. This was months ago. But I did love being able to say to the team, you know, gosh, what I kept thinking was, how many days in a row can I do absolutely nothing for myself, before it becomes a problem, you know? And it’s a real question, right? And so you know, it, it’s manifested in some little ways, like, we’re going on vacation soon. And I’m like, how do I even choose a non-work related book – because I do love reading things related to work, but like, I want to force myself to read something else, something about a different side of my person, right? And again, I don’t want to read anything about parenting. I don’t want to read – So actually, we haven’t talked about this, because it just happened yesterday. I was thinking so much about our conversation with that leader, and his, like, reducing harm and kind of acknowledging suffering and, and kind of this, just like, personal, you know, like, I’m always kind of like a first do no harm kind of person, you know. And so the books I’m checking out are just things I’ve never read about before. So I’m taking some inspiration from him, I checked out a book on like basic Buddhism, I just want to get really curious about something I don’t know enough about in the world, something kind of bigger than myself something out there. I also love to read about minimizing, but I feel like, I feel like I’ve read so much about it, I should write the book on mimizing things now, but so I’m listening more acutely to the cues of my insides about me as a whole person and realizing like something isn’t, I can list the things that are going how I want them to go. And then there’s just something unsettled. And I think it’s my routine. I think it’s what also is a lack of routine and some crucial areas like exercise. So and for me, that acknowledgement feels a lot more powerful than like a resolution, right, which we know aren’t particularly effective and can be really frustrating. And so I feel like instead of saying in the new year, I’m gonna do X, I want to just continue listening, and calibrating and tuning up and and trying something completely different, you know, and just going for it.
Sarah Noll Wilson
I love that. There’s an article. I read a while back. As adults, we don’t do enough stuff that we suck at.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah.
Sarah Noll Wilson
We don’t try. We don’t try new things that we – we keep with what we know, we keep with what we’re good at. We keep with what we’re familiar. And and I think that was that was really powerful, but I think I can certainly resonate. And I’m sure a lot of folks can – of that just when you start to lose yourself a little bit or you because you and I had a conversation earlier this week about putting it all on the table. And just like –
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah, that’s where that’s coming from.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And who’s doing and who’s doing what tasks? And is that necessary? And you know, for you as your kids are growing older, what are the tasks that they can take on? And what does that look like?
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yes.
Sarah Noll Wilson
And I think that that’s really powerful, too, to just say what again, the whole – goes back to the beginning, what do we hold on to? What do we want to let go of? What do we want to create new or differently is so so powerful, but – what I also want to just name, the thing that I heard you say, is not even that, yes, you are doing things differently. But what I hear you say that you want to practice is listening. And, and I, I want to highlight that, because, again, in our high urgency, hustle culture, something like that may not feel or be perceived as valuable. But in actuality, you can’t do different until you are aware that you need to do different. And so that is actually the base practice. And so I think that’s really, really powerful and can be applied to a lot of situations. Lovely.
Okay. I will share, I’ll share one.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Okay.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Well, one I’ll – just real quickly, I won’t get into this, because we’re gonna have more conversations. This has been the year I feel of really exploring roles and rules in society and how those limit people. Especially on this podcast for people who’ve been along the journey, that conversation with Nick Papadopoulos, talking about men and intimacy, and then other conversations we’ve had with folks and conversations, Nick and I have had and I’ve had with other people. And I’m excited to explore more of that next year, of just the ways that limits us. But I think that one of the hardest lessons that I’ve learned this year, and one of the most important lessons is what kind of relationships I want in my life, personally. I think that there has been a pattern for a very long time of relationships, particularly with family being more surface level, of not being more deeply connected, more intimate, not disagreeing, not apologizing. And and this year there were situations that shined a light on that Pretendephant of how often the pattern was, for me, and some of the relationships that we have, when something hurtful or harmful happens, that we just pretend like it didn’t happen, is one component. But, but even bigger than that, I realize that where I’m at personally, is I want – I don’t want relationships that are just surface level. That we ask the same questions every time. That we get in – and I understand patterns and habits happen, especially with your family. But that also doesn’t mean that you can’t evolve. And I don’t, I don’t want to just talk about surface level topics. And when I say surface level, I mean, you know, sports or weather, or how are you doing, but not really listening to how you’re doing. And, and that work has meant that either I need to be willing to work on some of those relationships, or there’s some relationships that I’m being okay, that they may never be that, and which is hard. Because there’s a grief in that almost, or that relationship isn’t what I want or need right now. And, you know, because I think in our work in the evolution, Nick and I, and how we’re having this, – and even honestly, even through the show, being in communion, that’s my acting background coming out a little bit of being in communion with each other and being able to talk about real stuff and hard stuff and it and to know that that I can receive the hard stuff and I want to be with people who can receive the hard stuff and when I say hard stuff, I don’t necessarily just mean hurt. I also mean I’m really struggling with this, and they’re not going to jump to oh, just look at the bright side of life or just you know, all of the you know, the ways and and that that has felt like almost a ripping open of my universe a bit of who I want to give time to. How I want to spend my time, how I want to show up in that time, and it’s made me so grateful and appreciative of the people, the relationships I do have, that have just been more meaningful. And we can wrestle with tough topics. And we can show up really messy with each other. And, and also part of that is, and being willing to work on repairing relationships, when things happen when things are said. And that goes both ways that isn’t just that I want to be able to say that, I know that I’m human, there are times when I may do or say things that are hurtful, and I really want relationships, and to get in – So that’s my work is to continue to show up safely. And to say, I can receive that, and I think and I I’m in a very different place now then it was even say five years ago with being able to really receive that and take ownership and all of that. So for me personally, it’s become really clear into something Nick and I talk about is – like so many folks, the pandemic revealed what do we want to give time to? And what are we done tolerating, and I want really meaningful connections, really meaningful connections, and I’m being okay, that not everyone will fit into that bucket. And that’s, that’s okay. So that’s, that’s my big personal. It’s been a really significant personal revelation.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
I love this phrase you use like, rip ripped open your universe? And like, I want to honor like, listening through, like, through what makes sense to you, when – it felt makes me feel a little misty. That feels enormous, doesn’t it? I mean, that, like, the disruption of everything that was hanging in the balance you thought it was supposed to hang, right. – I’m picturing like, a universe. I mean, that’s so profound. As other people are listening you know, there might be another life experience where they think it wasn’t maybe the exact one is you, but that phrase resonates to hard times, I think and how truly unsettling they can feel.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, it’s and that grief is real. You know, you talked earlier about I want to get back to and then you realize who I am now. Who Nick and I are now.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yes.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Who we’re trying to become what we want in our world. There are things we can’t go back to because we’re, we’re different, or the other people are different. And so there is there can be some grief in that of realizing that perhaps people who who once were really important, are playing a different role now, and that’s okay. Right? Everyone is like, we’re all in seasons with each other’s lives. And, you know, and and it pushes, it pushes us and it pushes me, again, going back to that, like circling full circle to the willingness of where do where am I willing to really give the time and, and working on being better about this is this is the kind of relationship I want with you. And, and being vulnerable in that and being vulnerable and saying, we need to be able to talk about this stuff, we need to be able to set expectations ahead of time, we need to be able to repair relationships, we need to be able to say, you know, – yeah, just say the things that are important to us and to receive the things that are important to us. And, and what’s incredible, is you know, while sometimes there’s loss, there’s also gain, right? I’ve noticed, I’ve been working really hard with showing up differently for my niblings, my nieces and nephews, and just trying to be more vulnerable with them. And more and less Aunt, Aunt-splaining. Olivia would tell me.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Yeah, I remember that…
Sarah Noll Wilson
And really listen and honoring their space and it’s been really remarkable even even my younger ones who are nine and 10. And just just saying I don’t just want to be this like let’s – I want to I want to show up more human for you and anyway, so that – I’m not – you know what me saying anyway, is equivalent to somebody who’s struggling saying I’m fine, it’s fine. So I’m just going to catch that.
Dr. Teresa Peterson
Oh, celebrate the catch.
So I’ll sit with that this has been an incredible year of transformation. Some of it brought on by some pretty tough situations and some of it brought on by taking time to really explore, experiment and evolve and say what’s what’s important to us. Teresa, final thoughts as we wind down this conversation together.
I hope everyone has a chance to do a little reflection before whether it’s before the year end before winter solstice, you know, with any kind of winter celebration that might resonate with you, it just is a season for pausing and yeah, turning inward a little bit. So thank you for listening to me share, right. For holding that space. For listening to sometimes the words I’m using and sometimes the song beneath the words as you would say so beautifully. So thanks for another year together. Sarah Noll Wilson.
Sarah Noll Wilson
Thanks, Teresa Peterson, I’m so glad that we could do this. And, and, and just a final thought. I mean, we’ve been talking about an hour and 10 minutes, but we probably spent about 20 of that talking about reflecting maybe 30 of that talking about reflecting so it’s only been about less than an hour. And we’ve covered a lot of ground. And so that’s our invitation to you is find a friend, think about what are the buckets in your life, you don’t have to necessarily be connected in doing the work together, for example, and and if – let’s say you don’t have somebody that you feel like you can be honest with, send us a video message, send us a voice note. And we’ll we’ll respond to you. Share, what are the insights, what are you holding on to, what are you letting go of, what do you want to do new or differently or sharing how your thinking has changed? We would love to hear from you. And as always, our emails are always open at podcast @ sarahnollwilson dot com. But we would love to – if you want to share we’re here to receive.
And so with that, just a heartfelt thank you, well to you, Teresa being on this incredible journey. And to all of you we have thought about and talked about doing a podcast for years. We’ve – it’s been the number one thing that people have asked us to do. We’ve learned a lot, we’ve experimented a lot, we’re continuing to evolve. And next year, we’ll be no different. So we will be back next year, we’ll be trying some new things. We have some incredible guests lined up, you’ll be seeing more of Theresa, as we as we are in conversation together. And I just want to share that, you know, the greatest gift someone can give you is their time and attention. And it is not lost on any of us on this team, how meaningful it is that you’ve been with us this whole year, across the world. We’re ending the we will end the year, well over 7000 downloads, which is just simply remarkable, and so overwhelmingly meaningful. So from my heart to all of yours. Thank you for joining us on this incredible experiment that has been Conversations on Conversations. And we cannot wait to come back and join you next year and 2023 and see where we evolved from that. So thank you all.
Our guest this week has been Dr. Teresa Peterson. And I always just love being in conversation with her and reflecting on this year was – we were reflecting after we wrapped up how powerful that was. And there were things we had forgotten that we had both experienced and just just had forgotten. And we really do want to hear from you. And if you want to record, you want to send us a video message, you want to send us an audio message, you want to send an email that’s been transcribed. We would love to hear about your reflections. What have you learned? How are you thinking differently? What are you holding on to letting go of doing differently? You can reach out to us at podcast @ Sarah Noll Wilson dot com. Or you can find me on social media where my DMs are always open. And if you’d like to find out more about our work and how we could support your team in the new year. Check us out at Sarah Noll Wilson dot com. And if you’d like to support the show, please consider becoming a patron. You can visit patreon.com/conversations on conversations where your financial support does go to support the team directly. And so not only do you support the great work that everyone does to keep the show going but you also get access to some pretty great benefits.
If you haven’t already, please be sure to rate review and subscribe to the show. You can do this on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or other platforms. This helps us increase our visibility get the word out and continue to have great conversations like we did today.
As we wrap up this year, a huge thank you to the incredible team who made this podcast possible. I would not be in this seat having these conversations if it was just me. So to our fearless and committed and dedicated producer Nick Wilson, who keeps us going and who reminds me, hey, where we at. Who keeps me on the straight and narrow, thank you. To our sound editor Drew Noll, who helps elevate the show, makes it sound good, make it be at the level that we want. To our transcriptionists this year Olivia Reinert and Becky Reinert, to making sure that the show is accessible for all. Our marketing consultant Kaitlyn Summitt-Nelson, who has helped us think differently about how we can get our message out and is just an incredible partner. And just a final thanks to all of you for joining us on this journey and we cannot wait for what’s to come. This has been Conversations on Conversations. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, when we can change the conversations we have with ourselves and others, we can change the world. Happy New Year, and we’ll see you soon. Bye.
Sarah Noll Wilson is on a mission to help leaders build and rebuild teams. She aims to empower leaders to understand and honor the beautiful complexity of the humans they serve. Through her work as an Executive Coach, an in-demand Keynote Speaker, Researcher, Contributor to Harvard Business Review, and Bestselling Author of “Don’t Feed the Elephants”, Sarah helps leaders close the gap between what they intend to do and the actual impact they make. She hosts the podcast “Conversations on Conversations”, is certified in Co-Active Coaching and Conversational Intelligence, and is a frequent guest lecturer at universities. In addition to her work with organizations, Sarah is a passionate advocate for mental health.