Episode 038: A Conversation on Connections with Lou Diamond

We’re back! In her first conversation of the new year, Sarah Noll Wilson welcomes guest Lou Diamond to discuss some of the key concepts and ideas from his new book SPEAK EASY: Connect with EVERY Conversation.

About Our Guest

Lou Diamond is a sales & leadership consultant, award-winning podcaster, 2X bestselling author, and professional speaker.

Lou has made it his life’s work to empower people to connect, engage & win in their businesses and their lives.

His innovative, connecting tactics have helped hundreds of companies across the globe explode their sales, retain their clients and build a thriving culture.

His bestselling book and popular keynote SPEAK EASY are helping people connect with EVERY conversation.

Lou’s boundless energy and motivation inspire audiences to feel they can conquer the world and make tons of great new connections doing it.

Connect With Us

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• Buy Don’t Feed the Elephants!: Overcoming the Art of Avoidance to Build Powerful Partnerships
• Find Sarah: LinkedIn | Twitter | YouTube
• Find Lou: Website | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | TikTok | YouTube

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Sarah Noll Wilson
Hello and welcome to this week’s episode of Conversations on Conversations where each week we explore topic to help us have more meaningful conversations with ourselves and with others. I’m your host Sarah Noll Wilson. And joining me today is a new and soon to be dear friend, I’m just declaring and I’m putting it out into the universe. Lou Diamond. Let me talk a little bit about Lou and then I’ll bring him on to the show. Lou Diamond is a sales and leadership consultant, award winning podcaster with over 850 episodes published to date. To date, I mean, just big applause to that. He is a two times best selling author and a professional speaker. Lou has made it his life’s work to empower people, to connect, engage and win in their business and their lives. His innovative connecting tactics have helped him help hundreds of companies across the globe, explode their sales, retain their clients and build a thriving culture. His best selling book and popular keynote, Speak Easy, is helping people connect with every conversation you can already understand why he and I like each other, connect and why we’re having him on the show. His boundless energy – you know in honor of you today did I was using my Flash mug –

Lou Diamond
Really.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I was like he’s got you know, this boundless energy so.

Lou Diamond
(singing) Flash. Ah-ah.

Sarah Noll Wilson
And motivation inspires audiences to feel they can conquer the world and make tons of great new connections doing it. Welcome to the show, Lou.

Lou Diamond
I’m so excited to be here. When I learned what Sarah’s show was called I remember just going, well, I got to be on that one because we’re gonna have a good conversation. And we had a great one when you came on my show Thrive LouD. And just one clarification, yes, there’s 850 published episodes plus, whatever it is on Thrive LouD. But that’s just one podcast that I’ve done. There are numerous other programs that I’ve had, it’s in the like, 1200s of all the episodes that I’ve either produced, ran for a while still exist out there in the pod sphere, whatever it might be. So yeah, it’s it’s I’ve had a lot of conversations,

Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s – you have had a lot of conversations, and it is a huge accomplishment. For those of you who are listening who may not pay attention to the podcast world. What is it? Most shows, like the majority of shows, don’t make it past episode six or seven.

Lou Diamond
I believe the old stat –

Sarah Noll Wilson
Something like that,

Lou Diamond
Yeah, it used to be that the average number of episodes that before a show pod faded, which is actually a term, –

Sarah Noll Wilson
(laughs)

Lou Diamond
where people got to episode seven, and then just stopped. And that also was because a lot of podcast shows might be like mini series, and you know, like a couple of three episodes and this. So the average got to where it is. But yeah, you’re right. You got to either, you have to have conviction, you have to love it. And maybe more notably, you have to have a little craziness to continue to do this show as much as we do. But I do love it. I love and I love the forum. And maybe more notably, it also helped to set the stage for what I do in my business. And I didn’t even know it was happening. I didn’t even know that was the case, as I was doing the show and realized how important it was into all the different aspects of what I do each and every day.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I – Well, I love that lead. And in before I have a question. I have one question for that. But I want to I want to start with, what else do you want us to know about you?

Lou Diamond
(laughs) I like that.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I mean, when I was on your show, we were talking about, you know, accordions and all of that. But what else other than your formal bio, would you want us to know about you?

Lou Diamond
So I guess you know, the fun stuff. Look, first and foremost I am a husband and a dad, I’ve got two incredible kids who are both in their 20s. Which is just kind of crazy. One is already in the working world, the other is enjoying Europe on a semester abroad. How can I come back in life as my children? Obviously and I love my wife. We’ve been married to it’ll be up to 25 years. And my also my immediate family, I’m very fortunate to have both my parents and my in-laws still around and my siblings and brother-in-laws and all that stuff are all very important into my life. And that’s where everything with me starts. And it’s made me who I am and maybe one click away from that are all the incredible connections that I’ve had throughout my life that I still hold near and dear to my heart and actively work on making sure I keep those connections going. I’m a you know not so great golfer. I love sports. I am basically this new like transitional person half in New York half in Florida. Mostly because I know you come from Iowa. I’m done with winter, Sarah, I’ve just had it so yeah, and I love the movies. I love –

Sarah Noll Wilson
What’s you favorite? Or what’s one of your favorites? That’s a hard question.

Lou Diamond
Yeah.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Cause like, it all depends on the mood.

Lou Diamond
I also ask that question. You know, what’s your one of your all time favorite movies and they all fall into different categories. Rocky is probably in the whole series of Rocky is probably the one because my business is called Thrive. And I’m all about moving onward and upward and, and the message of that incredible fictional character, whether you like boxing or not, that’s irrelevant. It’s, it’s the motivation of what that movie and that character is all about that, you know, it doesn’t matter how hard you get hit in life, it’s getting hit hard, and then getting up and keep moving forward, which is what living is all about, and what winning is all about. So that movie is just it just ever since I was a kid, I’ve always loved it. And obviously, it’s a great, you know, underdog story. And there are other ones like, I just recently rewatched, the original Top Gun, and after seeing the new Top Gun, and I remembered how many I almost knew every line to that movie. So there are there. There’s comedies and all that stuff that I do love. Shawshank Redemption is another incredible. And so anyway, I’ve got a lot, I’ve got a bunch, but Rocky was always one of the top ones for me.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I love that I’m not surprised. You know, it was interesting hearing your response to say more about you, and that you first went to all of your relationships, that that didn’t surprise me and you started to go into this. But I would love to hear more. What you know, one of the things you and I have bonded over and and just a little backstory and how we got connected, because I think it’s a beautiful story of relationships and connection. I was working with a friend and client and colleague of yours Ed McGreen and afterwards he connected it was like, “Hey, I think I met the female version of you.”

Lou Diamond
It is true shout out, shout out to Ed, who, who’s a wonderful soul and a good friend. And as a perfect example of someone who I’ve been friends with, it’s actually kind of scary. It’s it’s over 15 years, I guess, maybe even longer than that, that we’ve either been doing business together in different roles for both of us and maintaining that relationship and the connection, I had the great fortune of doing a lot of the work that I do and helping people connect, engage in win with one of his organizations, which was awesome. And we got closer that way. And that’s obviously indirectly how we got connected. And and I always state this that, you know, and this, I guess will be a good lead in if you don’t mind me front running us. Because here, here it is. And it’s a question that I asked many people and I asked myself, “Where does every connection in our lives begin?” And you and I figured it out, we just double clicked it straight down. It begins with a great conversation. And that’s what your listeners love. And that’s what makes the show so engaging. And that’s what makes most of the conversations we have in our lives so important. We remember them, we feel a certain way, we react a certain way. The ability is such an important part of what makes us human is to find that connection. And it all starts with that really good conversation. And the question that I hit myself with was, you know, a lot of people tell me that they don’t connect with every conversation, they don’t make those connections, they don’t land on it. They – you don’t close the sale, you don’t make the second the first date into a second date. You don’t really grow the relationship in a way that you want. You failed to make the connection. But what if you did?

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah.

Lou Diamond
What if you could connect with every single conversation you had? What power would there be in that? What is it that you need to do or say or act about so that when you enter into conversation you can and I – you know this spoiler alert. That’s what led to me writing the book Speak Easy.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Wait, wait, wait. Let’s do like, let’s do a double. For those of you listening, we’re both slowly raising up his book Speak Easy.

Lou Diamond
Speak Easy. And that’s what and this was this was the formulation of not only being a podcast, so it’s where I learned a tremendous amount of lessons from being a great interviewer, and podcaster and conversationalist over the years. But I also recognize that there were certain things that you needed to do to make yourself more likeable, more connectable, more adaptable, more enjoyable to engage in a conversation with and I realized in the work that I do as a sales and leadership consultant, how important those conversations are. And no matter what strategy, or game plan, you have to grow in your business or great messaging or marketing, you have to make sure you’re you know, you look great and all the materials are good, or even as a leader if you have the greatest strategy and development plan to to launch your business to the next level. If you’re not having really good conversations and work on the skills of that inside and out of your organization, you’ll miss the opportunity to make the connections that will make you thrive. And I just wanted to share that gift with everyone. Learn the lessons that not not only myself, people like you as well, amazing conversationalist probably don’t even realize what they do. And give them those skills and tactics so that they can use it every single time they’re getting ready for that important conversation to connect and meet with someone, because it’s vital. And it is where we really, really grow, develop, and as I love to say, and win in life. Take advantage of those opportunities each and every time. So that’s what inspired all of this and why I love your podcast is about and having listened to a couple of these incredible conversations, it just reemphasizes is something that you and I both are very passionate about.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, it’s I mean, we, you know, in, in our work, and just in how I try to show up, right, it’s the idea that our success personally, professionally, whatever, whatever that looks like to you. Kind of similar with you. Winning, for some people might be landing the sale, winning for other people might be having the relationship that they want with their, you know, romantic partner, the winning might look like something else, and that it really does come down to conversations. And it isn’t always something we’re taught, you know, it’s whether that’s – we are raised to be quiet. Raised to be, you know, or maybe you’re navigating some social anxiety, and even just how do we how do we get into this. I mean, one of the things when we talk about connecting and thriving, actually a book that I just finished, in addition to yours, but a book that I think, if you aren’t familiar with and that just came out November is called Platonic. And it’s about the power of friendships. And some of the some of the studies that Dr. Marisa Franco quotes in that is the fact that out of 106 of the factors that they know contribute to depression, having someone with whom you can, that you can confide in is one of the most important and then just the fact that like biologically and this is something I know you talk about and are passionate about. Biologically, we need these connections. And and I think it’s so easy to take them for granted. Or it’s easy to not be intentional about them. Like you were saying you work really hard to stay connected and intentional about those relationships that you build.

One of the things that I appreciated about something that you wrote in your book that I – was one of my highlight moments – was the idea that there isn’t, there isn’t a minimum amount of time to build a connection. And I think that’s something that is really resonant for me. And even if that connection is meant to be temporary, right? It’s the person at Target, (laughs) you know, going going through the line, and you’re just having a moment. And so I’m curious to – have you, from your experience, what are some of the most common either limiting beliefs or traps, or things that get in our way of showing up? And we could probably look at this through the lens of okay, sales, right, you’re getting too focused on sales selling, not enough focus on connecting. But from your experience of working with all the companies that you work with. Hundreds, over a thousand interviews you’ve done, what are some of the most common hiccups, right things that get in people’s way, of creating really meaningful connections?

Lou Diamond
I love that. I would start, I would start with the biggest hurdle. And for some reason people do this is that they believe that that they’re not able to have the conversation they need to have when they want to. They – there’s this belief that a certain circumstance has to be set up in a certain way, it’s got to be in the right forum, or in a meeting or whatever it was, and to your point about how connections can be made really quickly. What I really find really interesting is I’m always amazed that people don’t just want to pick up the phone and call someone or set up a zoom call to do it, I go, I just want to get in chat with you right away. And a lot of people feel they need to have a certain level of preparedness or make sure their duck’s in a row or they follow a certain protocol or there’s maybe even a little politeness that they’re trying that they believe that that needs to be part of the decorum. I want to make it clear some of the best conversations I’ve had with some of the most obnoxious people that I first met initially, and then really got to know who they were. I state this that – I in the book, I hit this home really hard. Every conversation is a gift. Every chance we have to connect with another human being on this planet is something so special, that we should not waste a minute of our time to feel that things need to ferment or grow in a certain way to have that conversation. Jump to it and start having the conversation yesterday is what I love to tell clients and specifically sales folks. And so so to me, I don’t understand the limiting belief that people – don’t underestimate how just initiating the conversation will get the ball rolling.

I joke about it, one of the things that we learned from doing the podcast, and it’s really good to be a podcast host. And being the interviewer, if you would, in the seat that you’re sitting in, you get a chance to mull and listen, when somebody gets going. So the power of asking a really great question just to start a conversation, not just how are you more along the lines of, you know, what, what’s getting your goat these days? What’s the biggest challenge you’re facing? What’s the toughest conversation you’re having? Today? What’s the most difficult conversation you’re having? And and when you start with that great question, and then you just get to ping back and forth and let the conversation – it’s like opening a phenomenal bottle of wine, we have no idea what it’s going to taste like. And I love the analogy. And it was quoted in the movie because I shared with you, I love the movies. So it was quoted in the movie Sideways. And the description of what makes wine so amazing. What do we love about wine. And what’s so great is, you know, the wine was made at a certain point of time at a certain temperature and where the grapes were, and at the moment that we open – there is only that unique moment that we open up that that’s what makes you appreciate in the moment of how great that wine is. The same applies for a conversation. Every single chance to have a conversation is going to be different, they’re never going to be the same, they’re all made a little bit different. Some of them are going to be amazing, some of them are going to be continually amazing. And the key thing I keep recommending people is pop open that bottle, have a conversation and get engaged right away.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I love that and that whole idea of initiating. I’m a little – I’ll be honest, I’m a little surprised by your answer of the like sense of perfectionism. I think I was expecting perhaps something else to come up. So I’m, so I’m mulling on that myself a little bit of, where have I seen that, or the the rules we place on what relationships should look like, what they can look like, you know. Whether that’s rules of roles, whether that’s gender, whether that’s, right, dynamics, all of all of that plays into it. And you know, and that’s something that I’m very much learning is making that choice, making that intentional choice. And, you know, it’s funny, I was reflecting a little bit on – I was very fortunate growing up. My dad is Mr. He Knows Everyone’s Life Story. Sometimes you’re like, Dad, they just want our burger order. We don’t need to. (laughter) But the thing that I appreciate about him now is is that any person he meets is for him, it’s exactly what you’re talking about. And so even when he’s outside working, he has all these beautiful humans that are walking down and he’ll say hi, and how’s your, you know, parents or whatever the case might be. And so what, you know, what are some of the strategies or tips to either push past that perfection? Or again – I mean, you know, because social anxiety is real.

Lou Diamond
Yeah.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Not knowing how to listen is real, right? We’re terrible listeners as humans. (laughter) So there’s a whole host of things that actually can get in our way that we have to be aware of and navigate. And so when you are working with people, what are some of the, you know, what are some of the best tips and strategies for people who go, this sounds great, I really want more connections. But boy, when I’m at a networking event, Lou, I just don’t like I just stay with the people I know. I just sort of hang back. So what’s the advice?

Lou Diamond
Yes, and those networking situations are, are they’re awesome, but they’re overwhelming.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, (laughs) that’s a great way to say it.

Lou Diamond
Because, think about it you are and let’s be clear, we are appreciating these networking in person events so much more because they were taken away from us during the pandemic. And a lot of people, aside from getting over the hurdle of being in rooms with large people, never really knew how to behave in those environments anyway.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah

Lou Diamond
And what I always – I used to joke about this, and I do this a lot when I’m helping to – when I speak and I talk about the way you’re supposed to be in those events. You want to try and avoid what I love to call the giraffe head. You know you’re in a conversation with someone and there’s so much activity going on and then in the corner of your eye behind the person you’re speaking with, passes someone that you had intended – you knew you wanted to go see or someone you knew or someone you hadn’t seen in a while, and instantly like a giraffe your head pops up and like reaches up looking over the person that you’re talking with. I always want to talk about the fact that you hear me say this all the time, be brief, be bright, be gone. In those environments, you don’t want to occupy someone’s time the entire time, so they can’t meet someone. But what you do want to do is be incredibly appreciative that you have the moment to speak to them. Because time is fleeting. You want to engage as much as you can there. And when I say be gone, don’t drop them like a mic and run away.

Sarah Noll Wilson
(laughs) See ya later, peace out.

Lou Diamond
Peace out, exactly. You basically want to move onward and upward. And they say, listen, hey, I want to when you hit the point where you’re connecting with someone, and you know that it’s gonna be a good conversation, you want to table it and say, let’s continue it at another time. And at those networking events, my most important thing that I love to do is just try and focus and not drink from a firehose, come up with a game plan ahead of time, know who you would like to meet, and try and schedule them. And in those networking situations, be a really good listener, listen more, you know, I love the analogy, you know, you have two ears and one mouth, use them proportionally. And I think that’s an important thing when you’re at the events. Sometimes you’re so excited to talk about all the great things that you’re doing and there are some really cool things you are doing, but it might be better to listen to someone hear what they’re up to, and try and engage in.

What I like is – I actually ran into someone who was a very avid follower of my Speak Easy method, and got into a conversation with me. And I found we were playing tennis as to who was going to ask each other’s questions more. No, I really want to know what’s going on in your world. No, what I really want to know is how you’re doing.

Sarah Noll Wilson
(laughs)

Lou Diamond
So in those uncomfortable situations, because they can be a little overwhelming, take them in small doses, find a few people that you want to connect with and recognize, this isn’t the first and only time you’re going to be speaking with this individual, set it up so that you can have more conversations with this person. Because I always say this, one of the goals of having a conversation with someone is to make the connection so you can have another. So think about that. Like even though you may not have closed the sale or won the business or in a more social scenario, maybe gotten the first date, or whatever it is, maybe there’s gonna be a phone call later, maybe you’ll meet again, and and I encourage people more often to step in and just say hello, reach out, shake someone’s hand and start the conversation. And in those environments, avoid the giraffe head. (laughs)

Sarah Noll Wilson
(laughs) I totally know.

Lou Diamond
But focus on who you are talking to. It happened by the way, it’s so hard and here’s the funny part. The term actually was called out, because my family called me on this. And this was my daughter, who one time saw me when we were sitting at our table at a restaurant. And she was – she was at that stage, which was basically like, you know, 12 to 19, where she’s mortified, you know, just about anything that you do. And sure enough, I’m looking for the server at the particular restaurant because they’ve forgotten something. And every time a server passed by I did the the giraffe head thing, like I’m looking around, and she’s covering her eyes going, “Oh, my god, dad stopped doing the giraffe head thing.” So I’ve recognized I do that a lot and I’m working on keeping my neck in check.

Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s, I love that visual, I know that visual, I’ve done the giraffe. So that’s something else I’ll be aware of. And you know, what you’re speaking to especially the the being a better listener and asking questions. So that was actually one of the best piece of advice is – I’m a very – well pre-pandemic was a very extroverted person, right? I feel like like a lot of folks, I’ve become more you know, more ambivert now just –

Lou Diamond
Has it really changed you, Sarah? Has it made you –

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, I definitely – well, ways that it’s changed is I’m much more thoughtful about who I want to spend time with.

Lou Diamond
Yeah.

Sarah Noll Wilson
In part because like you said, so much got pulled away that before I was connecting with so many different people, and I was missing out on spending really quality time with the people who are most important.

Lou Diamond
Yeah, okay.

Sarah Noll Wilson
So in that sense, I become much more protective. And, and, and even going into this year, getting clear about – again, in the spirit of wanting to strengthen those relationships that are most meaningful – family is one thing because it’s easy, we see each other more frequently, but who are those friends that I just want to make sure I really prioritize? And you know, and still just navigating really big crowds. And it’s, you know, some of that is different because of where you live, right? My friends who were in the big cities where precautions were more widespread is different than in Iowa, where, what precautions? Right?

Lou Diamond
(laughs)

Sarah Noll Wilson
So there was just a different level of navigating anxiety from that standpoint. But the the piece of advice was just become really curious. Learn as much as you can about the people. And you know, and I know for me personally, I get turned off when I’m literally just having – we’ve just introduced names and it’s, here’s my card. I’m like, woah, we haven’t even had a first date yet. I’m not even ready for that. And so I love that advice you have of the moving onward and upward and how to not just take that as a moment but as an opportunity to then connect to what else might happen? What else could be possible? Something you said that I want to go back to, and this is something you talk about in your book and I really, I love the story of how you set this up. So I’ll give you just a teaser of what I want you to talk about here in the moment, is the soundcheck. And it’s such a great story about how you get to that moment, because I think that’s another thing that we don’t think about doing, we don’t realize how valuable it can be to either rehearse or anticipate or think about, even if it is just what are a couple of questions I want to have in my back pocket when I go to this event so I can feel more comfortable – in the, in the world of theater, we had a phrase that has always stuck with me, which was have the discipline to learn the lines and the faith to forget them, meaning do the work and then just be present with them. So I would love to have you recount if you will the story –

Lou Diamond
I assume that – There’s the story with Sting. Yeah,

Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s such a great, it’s I loved how you, I loved how you set up to that moment of and this is why soundchecks are important.

Lou Diamond
Yeah. And so for the listeners, this goes way back. I can’t believe I’m saying this. This was in late ’99 and 2000. It actually was 2000, which was Sting, formally from The Police, and had his new album at the time, which was called Brand New Day. And the company I was working for at the time, we actually were the digital sponsor, partnered up with the no longer – now part of HP, but it was Compaq computer at the time. And with that incredible sponsorship, this was Compaq was the account that I oversaw and managed. And this particular project was to literally tour around with Sting. It was one of the first streaming recorded concerts online, it was kind of cool, like we had all these different sessions. So I got to not only see that there was video and capturing of, you know, to promote the event, which was a great opportunity, showing Compaq as a forefront leader in this from somebody whose album was it’s a Brand New Day in the new millennia. And in the process, I got to go around to many of the concerts and got to hear sound checks and preparation and learn so much from the soundboard.

For those who’ve ever been to a huge concert, the next time you go, just look down on the floor, specifically one of those big stadium concerts and look at the biggest piece of electronic machinery you ever gonna see. And it’s the soundboard for the performer. Now, what I had always thought was that, when they do a full rehearsal, by the way before a show, and they do they really a lot of great musicians, they’ll run through the entire set. They’ll know the songs are gonna play the transitions they want to do. I used to think that the rehearsal was for the musicians. What I didn’t understand was that every single venue arena and place that you go to has its own unique way that the sound resonates within that particular venue to the audience, the listening experience is different each time. So the soundcheck is not only as much for the band to practice, but it’s also really for the the best quality listening experience that you can have. And it was eye opening to me, Sarah, because I thought about the fact of all that preparation ahead of every conversation and knowing how your message is going to resonate with who you are trying to connect with, how important that is. How you say what I call your TMAY, which is, you know, tell me about yourself. And that familiarity of, you know, not going into long winded ways – when I say, so tell me what do you do? People don’t want to hear, “Well, I’m the Executive Vice President of such and such a company and I’ve worked here for this long.” No, they want to know who you are and what you do. And I love you know, you heard it in your opening I’m, I’m basically empowering people to connect, engage and win, through every conversation they have. And that’s something that always goes well, please tell me more. What does that mean. And that’s the type of reaction that you want your audience, your listening audience when you are having that conversation. When you talk about your business and your company and what it does, make sure it’s clear, concise, and to the point. Make sure that all the things that you say – you can practice these things ahead of time and rehearse them just like great performers on stage do, and to your point about being in the moment, it’s not going to come out scripted. It’s to get you to know how that would sound so that your audience can really connect with this message. So that soundboard image that I had and getting an understanding by the way, a deeper understanding you’ll ever want to know of how sound actually resonates was fascinating to me. And something that always stuck with me – that and on that tour, just to be clear, I was known as – the company I worked for was called Organic and in his lovely British accent at the time, Sting knew me as the Organic guy, he could never remember my name, Lou. And he literally would walk off the stage and (in a British accent) “Oh, the Organic guy, go get him.” And there I was, me running around. So it’s things. So those are two things that resonated most with me, but I’m very glad it resonated with you, the importance of the soundcheck.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Well, I think because, again, I think that that’s something that depending on how you were raised, or what experience you have, you don’t realize or it can feel inauthentic. I think sometimes people will say, well, it feels inauthentic or, and, and, boy, our first draft shouldn’t always be in the moment. And you know, and I know that’s something else that that you you cover in your book is just the idea of context and familiarity and really knowing your audience and how do we how do we bring that to the table. And, you know, so much so much of our world is helping people have the conversations they’re avoiding, because they’re tough, because they’re emotionally charged, because they’re, you know, layers to it. And and that’s something that I think we’ve really come to appreciate is the power of, of that rehearsal, so to speak, or just getting clarity. And again, especially if you are somebody who maybe have some nerves or who, you know, don’t feel as confident with it. Is that just like get in that elevator. What are the few questions? What are the follow up questions, right? The, you know, I love that tell me more about yourself, I think, tell me more, is probably one of the most powerful three words we can use. Whether that’s a leader talking to a team member, whether that’s a partner talking to their, you know, to their spouse, whether that’s just meeting somebody and saying, well tell me more about that. And so I love that that’s something that you brought up. And I just really resonated with the whole idea of soundchecking.

Lou Diamond
Yeah

Sarah Noll Wilson
One thing I was curious because, you know, a fair amount of our audience who, who’s listening right now? Hi, everyone. Are, you know, people who are in formal leadership roles, or, you know, whether that’s from an HR perspective, from leading a team. And I’m curious to know, one of the things that we’ve observed as more companies have moved remote or hybrid, so I want to make this shift a little bit, because I’m curious to get your perspective on it, is that what we have observed is an increase of conversations being much more transactional. Right. Very task focus, because we don’t have those moments in between the meetings, walking, seeing each other in the cafeteria. And and similar to what you’re talking about, like, we weren’t great at some of this before the pandemic, and I totally agree. We weren’t great at it before, we just had way more opportunities to interact with each other. So I’m curious to know what you know, what are the things you’re observing in the clients that you’re working with? And and how does that change or shift strategies? Because it’s always interesting when people go, “It’s just, you just can’t build relationships virtually.” And I was like, well, literally, my, my closest friend that I have right now, I’ve never met in person.

Lou Diamond
Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Noll Wilson
You know, you and I have never met –

Lou Diamond
That’s true.

Sarah Noll Wilson
And we have a level of, of intimacy, and friendship over just a few, really, just a few conversations. I mean, there’s a level of safety that we’ve already built in a very short amount of time. So I’m just, I’m just going to put it more broadly, just what are your thoughts, you know, related to how do we transition? And what are some of the things we need to be thinking about?

Lou Diamond
And similarly, on this virtual world, there’s a woman who, for two and a half years, I’ve been working with her, never met her in person until just this Christmas holiday season. And it was amazing. It was one of the best hugs I’ve had in a long time.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Right? There is something about the virtual delay, and then you’re a real person. And that’s how tall you are. And like such –

Lou Diamond
Wow, I’m like – you are as bald as you look on TV is usually what I get. (laughter) No, no, I’m just – So so I want to bring a couple of things there that you said and specifically as it relates to the virtual piece, one of the things I’m seeing and one of the things I’m helping a company actually do and deploy. And I urge leaders within companies to do this. Somehow you have so much wonderful technology with all of your calendars. And that is do not make the meeting 30 minutes or 60 minutes, make the meeting more like 25 minutes or 50 minutes. And the general idea on this is you want – and don’t book that next window – give the 10 minutes. Let people have bio breaks let people have a chance to go in. And the other thing that will happen is that if you start a meeting at 1105, instead of 11 o’clock, people are going to start milling in by the way around 11 o’clock and they kind of come in and that’s where the water cooler talk is happening and some of the fun things. – What’s going on. How was your holiday? What what’s going on? What do you do for the winter? Did you go on vacation? I was your long weekend? Tell me. Hey, I know you had graduation. Tell me how that was like. All those things are so important. The little tidbits and flavors and sprinkles that make our conversations really colorful if you would, it isn’t just work to work to work. And we do recognize we can be more efficient. So let’s be more efficient. Let’s give ourselves the time we need, don’t overbook every single minute.

And one of the things we are trying to bring back was the thing that really worked well, when we were always in person, and that was the lovely brown bag lunch. We’ve – I’ve had – one of the clients I’m working with, they picked a day in the week and it keeps rotating. But everyone is encouraged to pop in and have this brown bag lunch, bring your lunch to your desktop on the days that they are remote, and use it as a chance to not talk about work, just have a quick what’s going on with you anyone’s got anything going on catching up with people, hearing what’s going on. There were even recipes were being shared at that part. (chuckles)

Sarah Noll Wilson
Sure. (chuckles)

Lou Diamond
I want to reiterate what you said, I think we will never, never be able to replace the power and the energy and connection that we have when we are together in person. However, we have a lot of means where we can at least bridge the gap. So using some really good practices and talk I talk about it in Speak Easy a lot, I call it the you know, you have to add a little bit of energy in your Zoom meetings. Because remember, penetrating through this camera is really, really hard. And you’re not there in person and you’re supposed to deliver the energy and passion that you have when you’re in person. And it’s it’s hard to do. So you want to maximize that that opportunity and give that extra jolt of energy in there. So bring those ingredients to every conversation you have in the virtual land. And in the hybrid world, look, there are certain things that need to be done in person. And there are certain things that don’t, and great organizations are figuring out exactly how to make that work. As long as people understand that, you know, just because that’s the way it was you have to you can’t make it the way you need to be. But let’s take some of those great lessons that we did have when we were in person because trust me, those extra two, three minutes before or after a meeting are so great. And if you want to leave that five minutes, “Hey, before anyone’s going on the bathroom break, does anyone want to hear the story about what happened to me this weekend?” is absolutely more acceptable now than ever. So try to use those windows of time on your calendar to allow for the things you could not have virtually to try to mimic them as best as you can. Those chances to be human with one another.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Say that say that again, just like slowly and thoughtfully for everyone in the back

Lou Diamond
(laughs) Yes, in the back. Try to be human with one another more often. And and if there was one thing that I recognized when it came to all the messages I deliver in Speak Easy, and even in the podcast interview, I always want to tap into the humanity of who we’re trying to speak with. And a lot of the stuff that we do on on my program Thrive LouD is to decode what makes people thrive. And a lot of that is not just the incredible accomplishments they have or what they do when they’re down and what they spin things around, when to figure out how to get back on the track, which is key. It’s the other stuff. It’s what they like to eat, who they like to hang out with, the music they love to listen to, what what they would do, and do over and over again, that they want to recommend to others. What are the things in this world in this life that make them excited and energized. Because what we connect with, at the end of the day, is the stuff inside here. It’s the stuff inside our heart. For those who are not watching the video. Inside ourselves it’s what we want to connect with. And if we don’t let people in, we are cheating the world from the gift that conversations create for the world. Letting these – the conversation itself on its own is a form of content, a form of magic, a form of something that we all need. And the world needs more of them. How many times do we know that problems exists because we didn’t have the conversation?

Sarah Noll Wilson
Right.

Lou Diamond
Or take it politically, Sarah, there are countries or parties or groups that just won’t get to the table, because they just don’t see eye-to-eye. And yet when they have the conversation. Everything comes together. I’ll bring up this one point. This was when we were really highlighting how separate the country had become several years ago. I don’t want to get into politics but there was something wonderful that one of my favorite interviews, one of my favorite conversationalist who I highlight in Speak Easy, Oprah Winfrey did and that was she did a special segment for 60 Minutes and she brought a group of people in the state of Michigan together very well televised thing from two different sides politically and brought them to the table and they had a conversation. And here’s the biggest takeaway was, I don’t think anyone was expecting people to be their minds to totally be changed, or everyone was going to sing Kumbaya moment. What they did was they appreciated the humanity of everyone in the room. And that happened because of great conversations that took place.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, we I mean, it’s really easy for us to forget that people are just like us, right? There’s a, you know, beautiful practice, you know, in preparing for navigating a conflict or, right, negotiation is, they have fears just like me, they have wishes, just like me, we might not agree on values, we may not agree on approaches. But there is this humanity that does connect all of us. And it can be really easy for us to lose sight of it. And you know, exactly to your point, it can be easy for us to not prioritize that, especially, you know, especially when we’re in the workplace, and its sense of urgency and hustle and right, you know, profit at all costs, and all of that. And, and, you know, the truth is, and I, we, one of my favorite authors that we were able to have on the show, Tara Jaye Frank, one of the things she talks about in her book is that people want to be seen, they want to be respected, they want to be appreciated, and they want to be protected. And those things happen in conversations. They happen and how we show up with each other. And, you know, and so, instead of, you know – when companies are thinking about employee engagement, or whatever I’m like, literally, if people just feel cared for goes so much, so much further than having beer in the fridge.

Lou Diamond
(laughs)

Sarah Noll Wilson
It’s just like, there is again, you know, and the point you made, I think, is – it’s bears repeating, you know, – that early in our conversation is that, and a lot of that got taken away from us, and we’re craving it even more and figuring out, you know, dancing with each other again, and there is something that is really special when we do get to be in person. There is – there’s something that is different and so how do we lean into that and savor that, and, and again, do it much more intentionally? I think that’s one of the things that I’m definitely holding on to from our time and some of the other things that I’ve been reflecting on, is just, it does take intentionality, it can’t be left to default. And then you get to a point where I assume you probably are, and I feel like I am in some situations, maybe not all where, then it’s just the way of being, it’s just the way of, right? You know my – Nick (laughs) and I always joke, he’s like, people can smell your empathy, like, people will share things with you.

Lou Diamond
You’re getting to the heart of it all. And to summarize it all in the key message that I that I teach in Speak Easy. It is not what you need to say, it is not what you need to do. It is not even you know, where you need to go to. What it really is, is how you need to be in every time you enter a conversation. And there is something in each one of us a humanity, a likeability and an empathetic nature to one another, that when we unleash that, and when we unleash our uniqueness and our superpowers and who we are and the amazing things that we have inside of us, which come out in a conversation, we’re giving a gift to the world. And I know that’s woo-wooey little bit like, you know, Kumbaya like –

Sarah Noll Wilson
Yeah, I love it.

Lou Diamond
But make it clear. It is, it is so important, because when we understand how we need to be, and I call it the Speak Easy method or the Speak Easy way you need to be, you can embrace those ideas. What you’re going to do is increase the likelihood, every single time you engage in a conversation with someone that that person is going to make a difference in your life who you connect with. It could be on the bottom line financially, it could be something incredibly socially, it could be leading to another connection that’s so important in your life that you haven’t even known yet that never would have happened if you didn’t engage. So I saw this once one of the – I know we’ve been going long on this, but I wanted to share the story of that when I came out with the idea for Speak Easy it was actually originally about listening, Sarah, and I did really intense research and actually went to the Pacific Northwest and met with a company called Audigy, who actually makes some of the most incredible hearing aids to understand exactly what listening, the actual scientific component of it was. Two things came out about it. One, I was not the person to write the story, because there was a lot of details and a lot of information that was so much more important. But the next part that led to it was that the art and practice of having conversations and knowing how to use a component of listening within that was the mesh that Speak Easy was all about, and that was the story that I wanted to tell because how you need to be, that way of being as you and Nick so aptly understood, is what we all need to work on a little bit. Everybody, self included. We always do and it’s a constant reminder because make it clear, you know, we want to connect with every conversation and we want to keep having more of them. But sometimes we’re not in the right mode, and we don’t do it and we need to get back into it. So what I wanted to do was give a gift to the world. So they can say, this is what you should do and these are the things you can bring to every one of those conversations. Because let me make it clear, it’s going to be wonderful, because how do you feel after you had a good conversation? It always feel so awesome, right? And much better than when you didn’t engage at all.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I love that. That’s a beautiful place for us to wrap up our conversation. But before we do that, I do need to ask you our final kind of our final question, which is speaking in terms of conversations, being a gift and changing ourselves, you know, part of part of our focus is sometimes it’s a conversation with someone else, sometimes it’s a conversation we need to have with ourselves. So Lou Diamond, what is the conversation you’ve had with yourself or with someone else that was transformative?

Lou Diamond
I’ll bring this full circle. This was a conversation with myself. A little over four years ago, I guess that would be right. It was basically at the point that the podcast show Thrive LouD was right around the 150th episode. And I was actually questioning whether I should continue the podcast. And for a lot of reasons, like I go was I driving the business in the right way? Was what I wanted to do? There were there were other things going on in the work that I was doing that I wasn’t sure if this was where it was supposed to be. And then I had a conversation with myself and I asked myself, what would my day, life, week be like, without these intentional, great conversations that I’m having on the show. And Sarah, it was really straightforward. Like, I looked forward on my calendar to every interview that I had. I got excited when that conversation got to be shared with others. And I didn’t realize it, but that particular tipping point, or whatever point you want to, in the theme of the program actually changed the way that I started to promote the show itself, the way I started to grow the business, the way that I started to even get better as a host and recognize a lot of the things that really have made me just a better person. From all the lessons in the stuff that I do. Forget about the success I’ve had with the show or the business that it’s driven or the other people that I’ve been able to help with the message that I do have, aside from that. Just that smile that I got to have after every one of those interviews, and I hit stop-record because I got to connect with a really cool person. That that was enough fuel that when I thought about that conversation that I had with myself, I was really glad that it didn’t sway in a different direction. And I kept the conversation going.

Sarah Noll Wilson
I love that. What about a great question. What would my day, my week, life be like without this? I think that is so beautifully applicable in other ways. Thank you for sharing that. So –

Lou Diamond
Thank you for listening.

Sarah Noll Wilson
For people who might want to connect with you be in conversation with you. One thing I will say, and I hope it’s okay that I’m saying – well, I’m gonna say it. I mean, you can’t stop what I’m gonna – Now you don’t know what I’m going to say.

Lou Diamond
Oh, man, now you have to say it.

(laughs) Now I feel like I have to say something better or different. But one of the things that I really appreciated about you and when we first met was sometimes when we’re connecting with people professionally or do who do similar things because we do we have similar work that we do, you know, although we approach it differently, that people can come from very much a scarcity mindset and one of the things I really appreciated about you and I think just further built our connection was just your sense of abundance in sharing information, sharing insights, helping me think about things, vice versa, bouncing ideas off of each other. So for people who are interested in connecting with you either to learn about how you can support their work, their world, to learn more about the book. What are the best ways you would like people to connect with you?

Simply put, you could find me anywhere at Thrive LouD, that’s T H R I V E Lou D for Lou Diamond, Thrive LouD, little punny there, Thrive LouD on all the social medias and thrive loud dot com which is also where you can find find the Thrive LouD podcast. And if you are interested in learning how to connect with every conversation, go to speakeasy book dot com and you’ll be directed right to where the website where the website is on Thrive LouD and where you can grab yourself a copy, whether digital, print or audio of Speak Easy.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Awesome, thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you for –

Lou Diamond
Oh, thank you.

Sarah Noll Wilson
being on on the show. For continuing to have conversations together. It’s been a treat of a day we got to start our day together. Now we get to end our day together so –

Lou Diamond
That is – listeners don’t need to know the specifics (laughter) but earlier – We had an early morning meeting. Now we’re dipping into evening, so this has been a win for me as I stated in the morning, what a day. I’m excited, and even more more proud and congratulations to you on what you’re doing and the gift that you’re given the world with Conversations on Conversations. It’s important.

Sarah Noll Wilson
Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks for joining us.

Our guest this week has been Lou Diamond and one of the things that I’m taking away was that strategy he talked about when meeting somebody new to move onward and upward, not necessarily meeting to just leave them in a lurch but people you feel a connection to, make sure that you invest in that connection. I think that was such a beautiful practice. And we want to hear from you. Let us know what resonated or pushed you or stretched you. In this conversation. You can always send us messages at podcast @ Sarah Noll Wilson dot com. Or you can find me on social media where all of my DMs are always open. And if you’d like to find out more about the work we do and how we can help you and your team have conversations that matter. Check us out at Sarah Noll Wilson dot com. If you haven’t already, be sure to pick up a copy of my book, Don’t Feed the Elephants! wherever books are sold. And if you’d like to support the show, please consider becoming a patron. You can do this by going to patreon.com/conversations on conversations where your financial support will not only support the incredible team that makes this happen. You also get access to some pretty cool swag.

And if you haven’t already, please be sure to rate, review and subscribe to the show on your preferred podcast platform. Doing this helps us increase our exposure so that we can continue to bring on really great guests like Lou Diamond. I want to do just a quick shout out to an incredible team that makes it happen even though I’m in front of the microphone. I am not the only one here. So to our producer Nick Wilson, our sound editor Drew Noll, our transcriptionist Becky Reinert, ksn marketing services, and the rest of the SNoWCo crew. And just a big final wholehearted thank you to Lou Diamond for joining us today, reminding us how human it is for us to want to connect. This has been Conversations on Conversations. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, when we can change the conversations we have with ourselves and others, we can change the world. So please be sure to rest, rehydrate and we will see you again next week.